When you hear the mayor and our finance director talk about the ‘value’ of things when they are not given away for free (Pool and Bus passes) and our police receive a FREE meal card at one of our fine hospital industrial complexes, let’s talk priorities. I often see them parked in the ER parking lot and on the adjacent street around ‘meal time’ by Avera. While I guess I could care less if Avera wants to give away FREE food (while charging the sick and visiting family members) the least the officer could have done was assist the gentleman into the ER if he didn’t want to give up his parking spot.
A few years back, councilor Staggers questioned this program and the parking situation (he lives one block from Avera’s ER) of Chief Barthel. While it is against police force policy and city policy to receive ‘free’ meals, Barthel said he doesn’t actively enforce the policy, only telling Staggers he ‘discourages’ it. If this present incident actually happened, I think it is about time the FREE meal program ends at Avera, it’s evident that some officers don’t value the program enough to help a sick person (you know, the people that are actually funding your FREE meal program).
UPDATE: This was a response emailed to me from a former SFPO named ‘Thomas’
“I am throwing the B.S. flag on this! I want to make sure that the original accuser knows the difference between the uniform of Avera security and the SFPD. Especially since the original accuser is from out of town and may not be as familiar with the city landscape as they think. Avera has a uniform that is very similar  to what the former SFPD uniform looks like. I hope that a mistake has not been made.
Also, Sioux Falls police officers do not enforce parking on private property. Before any accusations fly you should make sure that you understand who you are accusing and not make a mistake. Please do not forget that many, many times during a shift, officers from all over the city, county, and other area agencies are routinely transporting involuntary psychiatric committal patients into the main Avera emergency room for admission. Just because an officer is parked in the lot does not mean that the officer is there for a free lunch. The cliche that people only see a badge is very true. We should be very careful to avoid a false accusation. Many area agencies use Avera. Just because you see a patrol car you should not assume that it is one specific agency.
 When I was employed by the SFPD,  we were not paid for our lunch breaks. Although, federal law says that if employees are not paid for their lunch break they have to take that lunch break away from their work station. At that time (and I’m sure as it is today),  officers do not have the luxury of taking their break away from their work area,  they are usually limited to how far away they can go out of their assigned area. During their unpaid lunch breaks, they  routinely are subject to be called out or to have it people walk up and want to speak with them on official business.
Regarding discounts or free meals: if that’s what the business wants to do that business can do that. It is no different  for a business to extend a discount or a free meal to an officer than it is for an officer to be invited to a neighborhood block party and be offered a meal at the block party. Both of these situations encourage visibility of officers among the public. Using your logic, any award, accolade, or thank you, should not be bestowed upon any officer or public employee for the job that they do. This would include any officer appreciation dinner that is put on by any local area civic organizations or a citizen handing an officer a bottle of water or soda on a hot day. If this practice were to end,  it will only serve to distance the officers from the public and the citizens that they serve.
Also, and especially during certain times of the 24 hour day, there are very few places open late at night  for an officer to stop and get something to eat. Because of this, it is possible that because you see a patrol car, that you may not be seeing the same car for hours on end or if you see several patrol cars you’ll see some officers coming into start their break as some others are leaving.
If you have any questions regarding the conduct of any officer you always have the option to speak with that officer’s supervisor. The city has made it very easy for anybody to inquire, complain, or comment on any officer. I am a big fan of this blog, I read it every day. There are very many things that go on in the city (that we should be aware of and are hidden from view of the public) and this blog does an excellent job of exposing that information. This item is not one of those things.
 I would have fully expected this blog to research this incident more throughly instead of just linking to an alleged or suspect incident. As A law-enforcement officer, I learned very early, that you have to have all the facts to make a proper decision in any incident and that until you have all the facts, no conclusions or opinions should be drawn.”
My RESPONSE:
As a person who has friends and aquaintences that work at both hospitals, I will say everything that Thomas is saying is true, BUT, I have also seen quite the opposite, and heard the opposite from hospital employees, that ‘some’ officers do use the emergency parking lot for ‘meal time’. To say it is one way or the other 100% of the time, is not the case. Just like any public employee, some are saints, some just go with the flow.
As for the FREE meals. As I understand it, it is against policy to accept free meals. And for good reason. Anytime a public employee gets a ‘freebee’ from someone, whether they are a police officer or a building inspector there could be an expectation from the giver to get something in return. The state has a long history with state government of ‘pay to play’. Obviously on a grander scale, but it is still there. Is it ethical for a public employee, who gets a salary, benefits and a pension to be accepting ‘gifts’ from business owners? It’s one thing to grab a plate of chicken at a crime watch picnic or at an appreciation night, it is a whole other ball of wax to be getting a free lunch everyday you work. If a police officer doesn’t believe he can afford to buy himself a lunch on what he makes, he best be talking to his union rep, because it is a sad day if we have to start handing out food stamps to police officers because they can’t afford to buy themselves food.
20 thoughts on “UPDATE: But do SF Police Officers ‘Value’ their FREE lunches?”
Check out McDonald’s parking lots also. They offer free lunches to cops. There are also quite a few places that offer discounts to cops in uniform as well.
In those cases, they’re private businesses and can do what they want.
I have also seen firefighters not correct the cashiers and take the cop discount for their lunches as well.
I guess you can put a price on integrity. It’s the cost of a free lunch for some city workers.
Avera, WHY is SFPD allowed to take ANY of the spaces in the ER parking lot IF they are not there for ER related business.
In addition, you may want to check on ALL those AVERA employees standing over on the corner of 7th Avenue and 20th Street. When I went by there at 11:45 today, there were clearly NINE employees smoking at that location. (BTW, this vacant property belongs to the Presentation Sisters who run AVERA.)
Yeah, if a business wants to give away free meals, that’s their bizzo, but the officers shouldn’t be using a lot that is for emergencies to eat a sandwich.
I’m going to play “devil’s advocate” Was the woman’s father obviously in need of the emergency room or could the officer have thought they were going to visit a patient and use the ER parking for that? Granted it isn’t right for them to use the ER parking lot while they eat, but then on the other hand does this woman know that the officers weren’t there because of an accident that they had investigated? I have a hunch she was right, but then on the other hand she has no way of knowing for sure what was actually going on. One more thing, if her father was so bad off why didn’t he go to the emergency room by ambulance? Like I said I’m playing “Devil’s Advocate.” I was also married to a cop in another city for 20 years. I guess I don’t see any thing wrong with law enforcement getting free meals or discounts, any more than I hear of Vets complaining because certain places won’t give them Vet’s discounts, and these people whine, “I’m a Vet.” Vets are no longer putting their lives on the line when they go to work. That being said, the city I lived in while married to a cop, there weren’t any businesses that offered them anything for free or discount, and it wasn’t expected. Also when I was young we never heard of active duty military or Vets receiving discounts or freebies, either. There are a lot of people now, that think they should receive these perks.
I know some will disagree with this but, I don’think the police should be allowed to take any discounts at all. It might seem like the business is just making a goodwill effort toward people who really shouldn’t be eating McDonald’s anyway, but that may not be the case at all.
Years ago, I worked at a convenience store and I was told to always offer police officers free coffee, pop, snacks, whenever they came in. This increased the likelihood of a common police presence in the business which makes customers feel safe, which helps drive sales up for the owners, and decreases the chances of a robbery, which help decrease costs to the owner (not the money stolen, the lost revenue from the lost sales once news gets out of the robbery, sometimes the associated property damage, all which exceed the actual money stolen).
So the businesses that can afford to give things away should benefit over the smaller stores?
The city has an ethics policy that has made previous decisions allowing city employees could take consumables such as a meal. But I don’t think that decision was meant to address an employee getting every lunch paid for for every workday of the year. That exceeds the intended meaning in my opinion.
Lastly. If I’m an enterprising criminal and I know that the 3 patrol cars assigned to the central district always eat breakfast a the McDonald’s at 41st & Minnesota Ave at 8am or the 3 assigned to the east district always eat lunch together at Avera at noon, when do you think I’m going to do my drug running? or casino robbing?
It’s just bad policing. That many police cars shouldn’t be parked in front of a restaurant at the same time unless it’s currently being robbed.
Time to put our police on a diet.
Probably handy to have a few Jedi around if danger comes knocking. The Sisters get it.
I appreciate the attention this is getting. I’m not opposed to free meals but it shouldn’t be expected and obvious. Much of the duty for police is just being present and on duty circulated around the city. I’d rather see them at restaurants than hiding asleep in parks. I’d say take a look at how it looks. Three police cars at a McDonald’s is a bad impression. More than one handicap space with a police car doesn’t look good. What especially troubles me about SFPD is their snooty ego and bias. Give them a one hour congeniality seminar once a month. Blend!!!
I think it was here where I read diamond jim did favors for the SFPD in regards to their motorcycle fleet? I guess that could explain why I have never ever seen a patrol vehicle by j&l issuing noise ordinance violations, speeding, exhibition handling, or dui’s.
I have seen a police presence on only certain occasions. When they lead the procession from j&l to thru town at an unrestrained decimal level of 120 for a half hour or more.
“As for the FREE meals. As I understand it, it is against policy to accept free meals.”
Check the rulings from the ethics boards. City employees can accept free meals and do so on a regular basis – and not just cops.
Also, as I have mentioned, an occasional free meal is fine. I have bought city councilors lunch before. This is different, being able to eat for FREE every single day they work isn’t comparable to the misc. freebies people give them.
You can count a lot of police vehicles in the valet parking lot sometimes. Also, the current Avera security guard uniforms look nothing like old SFPD, maybe the dogcatcher’s duds.
It should be nobody’s, I repeat nobody’s, concern if a business owner decides to give a gratuity to officers. It is the right of every business owner to determine what they will allow to occur at/in their own establishment. This is really much ado about nothing.
By the way Poly it is decibel level, NOT decimal level. And yes they, the PD, do issue citations for the violations you mentioned, at J&L. Please get your facts straight. Don’t make accusations that you are unable to support with facts.
I doubt very much that you have ever attended an event at J&L.
BH, but as public servants, receiving those FREE meals should NOT impede on Avera’s PAYING customers (the ones actually paying for those free meals). Like I said, if they want to each lunch there, fine, but park on the street.
Poly is VERY familiar with the J & L events.
bh, I do know the difference between decibel and decimal. My auto spell check does not. As a very frequent passer byer to j&l, talking thousands of times, I have never seen a patrol car in that vicinity during any of their 120 DECIBEL beer fests or lame bands that blare out at even higher DECIBEL levels. The only police presence I have ever seen there is leading their 120 DECIBEL parades.
BH. Your opinion is just that. An opinion. If the reason they are giving free items away or the result of them giving free things away is that they receive additional services from the police, whether it’s intentional or not, then it cannot be allowed. It is interfering with what is supposed to be the impartial policing practices of the community.
So quite frankly, it’s very naive to think freebies don’t influence where the officers stop or how much time they spend there.
Should a shop owner be allowed to hand an officer $5 for walking through the door to his store? No? Then why a hamburger, fries and a drink? and if that’s okay, why not $25? Christmas gifts?
It’s a slippery slope and the police need to be above reproach. So you’re right, private business can do whatever it wants – except interfere with public matters. So when it comes to police, they serve the public, so you are wrong, it’s everybody’s – I repeat, everybody’s concern what the officers are doing. The police department management needs to ensure it’s officers are engaging in community policing and equally covering the city, not herd around the trough of Avera and McDonald’s everyday.
Poly,
Passer by does not equal attend. I’m just saying.
l3ewis,
Passer by does not equal being familiar w/the events at J&L. Unless you actually attend you do not have all of the information you need to make a well founded statement.
How many other events are you aware of that have raised literally millions of dollars to help support sick/ill children. At the very least give credit where credit is due, regardless of your own prejudices.
“How many other events are you aware of that have raised literally millions of dollars to help support sick/ill children.”
I knew this was coming. It is the typical response when anyone questions J & L events. So it’s okay to make a bunch of noise, get drunk, and drive carelessly as long as you are raising money for sick kids. I’ll tell that to an officer the next time I get pulled over for drinking and driving.
bh, I’ve attended more than a few of their drunken free for alls. After all, how else am I going to fairly judge what goes on there without lining up for one of there $5.00 a can beers. So, bh, for every dollar raised for the kids, how many dollars go in the E brothers pockets?
And if it’s all the same to you, I’ll stand by what I’ve said about police patrolling that area for violations. There’s a treasure trough of revenue out there, and where are they? In the central district ticketing anybody with a means of transportation that puts out over 80 DECIBELS. But a steady diet of 120 DECIBELS or more at a j&l beer fest? “Nothing to see here. Move along.”
To be fair I must add this. Having been to a few j&l fests over the years, the vast majority of bikers do act responsively. But, they do sell a lot of beer. Just like in any event that sells beer DT. So there is an element of risk as the bike rally nears. The Rapid City Journal has proven it. They did a report that covered a fifteen year period of Sturgis rally’s. There were 141 fatalities. 20% involved alcohol. So the E brothers throw mini rally’s for about six weeks around the Sturgis event. Lots of noise and lots of partying. Just like society, where there are parties, there is beer. And just like society, most are responsible….just sayin. It’s worth having a presence.
Check out McDonald’s parking lots also. They offer free lunches to cops. There are also quite a few places that offer discounts to cops in uniform as well.
In those cases, they’re private businesses and can do what they want.
I have also seen firefighters not correct the cashiers and take the cop discount for their lunches as well.
I guess you can put a price on integrity. It’s the cost of a free lunch for some city workers.
Avera, WHY is SFPD allowed to take ANY of the spaces in the ER parking lot IF they are not there for ER related business.
In addition, you may want to check on ALL those AVERA employees standing over on the corner of 7th Avenue and 20th Street. When I went by there at 11:45 today, there were clearly NINE employees smoking at that location. (BTW, this vacant property belongs to the Presentation Sisters who run AVERA.)
Yeah, if a business wants to give away free meals, that’s their bizzo, but the officers shouldn’t be using a lot that is for emergencies to eat a sandwich.
I’m going to play “devil’s advocate” Was the woman’s father obviously in need of the emergency room or could the officer have thought they were going to visit a patient and use the ER parking for that? Granted it isn’t right for them to use the ER parking lot while they eat, but then on the other hand does this woman know that the officers weren’t there because of an accident that they had investigated? I have a hunch she was right, but then on the other hand she has no way of knowing for sure what was actually going on. One more thing, if her father was so bad off why didn’t he go to the emergency room by ambulance? Like I said I’m playing “Devil’s Advocate.” I was also married to a cop in another city for 20 years. I guess I don’t see any thing wrong with law enforcement getting free meals or discounts, any more than I hear of Vets complaining because certain places won’t give them Vet’s discounts, and these people whine, “I’m a Vet.” Vets are no longer putting their lives on the line when they go to work. That being said, the city I lived in while married to a cop, there weren’t any businesses that offered them anything for free or discount, and it wasn’t expected. Also when I was young we never heard of active duty military or Vets receiving discounts or freebies, either. There are a lot of people now, that think they should receive these perks.
I know some will disagree with this but, I don’think the police should be allowed to take any discounts at all. It might seem like the business is just making a goodwill effort toward people who really shouldn’t be eating McDonald’s anyway, but that may not be the case at all.
Years ago, I worked at a convenience store and I was told to always offer police officers free coffee, pop, snacks, whenever they came in. This increased the likelihood of a common police presence in the business which makes customers feel safe, which helps drive sales up for the owners, and decreases the chances of a robbery, which help decrease costs to the owner (not the money stolen, the lost revenue from the lost sales once news gets out of the robbery, sometimes the associated property damage, all which exceed the actual money stolen).
So the businesses that can afford to give things away should benefit over the smaller stores?
The city has an ethics policy that has made previous decisions allowing city employees could take consumables such as a meal. But I don’t think that decision was meant to address an employee getting every lunch paid for for every workday of the year. That exceeds the intended meaning in my opinion.
Lastly. If I’m an enterprising criminal and I know that the 3 patrol cars assigned to the central district always eat breakfast a the McDonald’s at 41st & Minnesota Ave at 8am or the 3 assigned to the east district always eat lunch together at Avera at noon, when do you think I’m going to do my drug running? or casino robbing?
It’s just bad policing. That many police cars shouldn’t be parked in front of a restaurant at the same time unless it’s currently being robbed.
Time to put our police on a diet.
Probably handy to have a few Jedi around if danger comes knocking. The Sisters get it.
I appreciate the attention this is getting. I’m not opposed to free meals but it shouldn’t be expected and obvious. Much of the duty for police is just being present and on duty circulated around the city. I’d rather see them at restaurants than hiding asleep in parks. I’d say take a look at how it looks. Three police cars at a McDonald’s is a bad impression. More than one handicap space with a police car doesn’t look good. What especially troubles me about SFPD is their snooty ego and bias. Give them a one hour congeniality seminar once a month. Blend!!!
I think it was here where I read diamond jim did favors for the SFPD in regards to their motorcycle fleet? I guess that could explain why I have never ever seen a patrol vehicle by j&l issuing noise ordinance violations, speeding, exhibition handling, or dui’s.
I have seen a police presence on only certain occasions. When they lead the procession from j&l to thru town at an unrestrained decimal level of 120 for a half hour or more.
“As for the FREE meals. As I understand it, it is against policy to accept free meals.”
Check the rulings from the ethics boards. City employees can accept free meals and do so on a regular basis – and not just cops.
Also, as I have mentioned, an occasional free meal is fine. I have bought city councilors lunch before. This is different, being able to eat for FREE every single day they work isn’t comparable to the misc. freebies people give them.
You can count a lot of police vehicles in the valet parking lot sometimes. Also, the current Avera security guard uniforms look nothing like old SFPD, maybe the dogcatcher’s duds.
It should be nobody’s, I repeat nobody’s, concern if a business owner decides to give a gratuity to officers. It is the right of every business owner to determine what they will allow to occur at/in their own establishment. This is really much ado about nothing.
By the way Poly it is decibel level, NOT decimal level. And yes they, the PD, do issue citations for the violations you mentioned, at J&L. Please get your facts straight. Don’t make accusations that you are unable to support with facts.
I doubt very much that you have ever attended an event at J&L.
BH, but as public servants, receiving those FREE meals should NOT impede on Avera’s PAYING customers (the ones actually paying for those free meals). Like I said, if they want to each lunch there, fine, but park on the street.
Poly is VERY familiar with the J & L events.
bh, I do know the difference between decibel and decimal. My auto spell check does not. As a very frequent passer byer to j&l, talking thousands of times, I have never seen a patrol car in that vicinity during any of their 120 DECIBEL beer fests or lame bands that blare out at even higher DECIBEL levels. The only police presence I have ever seen there is leading their 120 DECIBEL parades.
BH. Your opinion is just that. An opinion. If the reason they are giving free items away or the result of them giving free things away is that they receive additional services from the police, whether it’s intentional or not, then it cannot be allowed. It is interfering with what is supposed to be the impartial policing practices of the community.
So quite frankly, it’s very naive to think freebies don’t influence where the officers stop or how much time they spend there.
Should a shop owner be allowed to hand an officer $5 for walking through the door to his store? No? Then why a hamburger, fries and a drink? and if that’s okay, why not $25? Christmas gifts?
It’s a slippery slope and the police need to be above reproach. So you’re right, private business can do whatever it wants – except interfere with public matters. So when it comes to police, they serve the public, so you are wrong, it’s everybody’s – I repeat, everybody’s concern what the officers are doing. The police department management needs to ensure it’s officers are engaging in community policing and equally covering the city, not herd around the trough of Avera and McDonald’s everyday.
Poly,
Passer by does not equal attend. I’m just saying.
l3ewis,
Passer by does not equal being familiar w/the events at J&L. Unless you actually attend you do not have all of the information you need to make a well founded statement.
How many other events are you aware of that have raised literally millions of dollars to help support sick/ill children. At the very least give credit where credit is due, regardless of your own prejudices.
“How many other events are you aware of that have raised literally millions of dollars to help support sick/ill children.”
I knew this was coming. It is the typical response when anyone questions J & L events. So it’s okay to make a bunch of noise, get drunk, and drive carelessly as long as you are raising money for sick kids. I’ll tell that to an officer the next time I get pulled over for drinking and driving.
bh, I’ve attended more than a few of their drunken free for alls. After all, how else am I going to fairly judge what goes on there without lining up for one of there $5.00 a can beers. So, bh, for every dollar raised for the kids, how many dollars go in the E brothers pockets?
And if it’s all the same to you, I’ll stand by what I’ve said about police patrolling that area for violations. There’s a treasure trough of revenue out there, and where are they? In the central district ticketing anybody with a means of transportation that puts out over 80 DECIBELS. But a steady diet of 120 DECIBELS or more at a j&l beer fest? “Nothing to see here. Move along.”
To be fair I must add this. Having been to a few j&l fests over the years, the vast majority of bikers do act responsively. But, they do sell a lot of beer. Just like in any event that sells beer DT. So there is an element of risk as the bike rally nears. The Rapid City Journal has proven it. They did a report that covered a fifteen year period of Sturgis rally’s. There were 141 fatalities. 20% involved alcohol. So the E brothers throw mini rally’s for about six weeks around the Sturgis event. Lots of noise and lots of partying. Just like society, where there are parties, there is beer. And just like society, most are responsible….just sayin. It’s worth having a presence.