But consulting firm Conventions, Sports and Leisure also said the city could expect to increase its arena and convention subsidy by about $400,000 annually.
I believe this number is low, especially in the first 5-10 years the place is open. Why pull more money out of an already tightening city budget to subsidize conventions, and an events center? Since we are $137 million dollars backlogged on road repair, I think the current city budget should be spent on infrastructure and essential services, not more subsidies. The current CC and Pavilion are still subsidized by the city, 10 years after they have opened. We need to learn some lessons from the past.
Teri Ellis Schmidt, executive director of the Convention and Visitors Bureau, said there is “quite a long list” of organizations that would use an expanded convention center.
Talk, Talk, Talk. Until you can back that up with names of ACTUAL clients you sound exactly like you did 10 years ago. What did you do with that list? Shred it?
Voters will not approve another penny tax so this subject is moot. The EC is a good idea that should be brought up again when there is a return to prosperity, a new mayor, and half of the city council is removed. This topic is brought up to deviate from real bigger problems the mayor and council should be addressing. There’s no money that can be diverted to special interests (developer friend projects). Instead, how about focusing on present litigation and returning city government to democracy.
Ellis Schmidt is always bringing up the conventions that SF is missing out on. Who are they? The organizaiton I work for had a MW region convention and they had it in RC. They have the Hills, Mt. Rushmore and Deadwood. SF has the Falls & the Zoo. Personally I do not think an expanded conv. center would bring in the conventions that SF is supposedly already missing out on.
Hammer,
When they spoke of potential Conventions at the TF meetings they would always use “Pheasants Forever” as an example of a group wanting to come here but choosing not to due to our crappy facilites. Another point TES made was “AG shows” when they talked about needing all the space on one level because “you lose people when you make them go up or down stairs”.
What I took from comments like that is we really humped the dog when we picked this Task Force. It’s great we can say we got a cross section of people, but the problem with that is after 18 months of these types of discussions, Groupthink has set in and paralyzed them from presenting the best possible plan. While those shows are important, and those concerns may be genuine, this EC isn’t going to fly if we are relying on Pheasants Forever and Ag Shows to make up ground for our other self-imposed issues.
We have shitty and expensive air service, and apparently we can’t make a persuasive case to get a Southwest or Frontier in to address that issue.
We have a vast shortage of hotel rooms and in particular, DECENT hotel rooms within any proximity of where one of these Events will take place. I think we often forget that most people visting here either come from or are used to travelling to larger metros. First you sock them for $200 more to fly here than Omaha, then you expect them & many times their families to bunk at Super 8 and hit Nutty’s or BW3 for entertainment & dining. Shopping? Take a 15 cab ride to the mall. We could overcome this shit with an Ocean, a Mountain range or legalized gaming, drugs and/or prostitution, but I don’t predict any of those will materialize in our lifetimes.
Entertainment facilities at public expense don’t benefit the general public. They probably don’t even benefit the economy since much of the money coming in for big name entertainment flies out of Sioux Falls and South Dakota with the fleeing entertainers.
Depending on the cost, these facilities are something like a few hundred wage earners dying since the sales tax or other tax sucks money that otherwise would be saved and invested on something besides sports or celebrity entertainment.
When those who would primarily benefit from any kind of public expenditure start talking about “progress” as a concept rather than a reality, taxpayers better start grabbing their wallets.
There should be no city sales taxes. The state should convert city sales taxes to state taxes so all of us get a voice in how the taxes are collected and spent. They might then redistribute them on the basis of student numbers.
It’s $800 air roundtrip to Minneapolis yet the same to fly to europe. Taxi is $25 to the airport. Indeed, travel cost and convenience must be addressed before large regional events can be attracted. Extra sales tax for an EC works against the population. They can hardly afford tickets and certainly can’t afford them with extra tax burden. This would be another folly with ongoing costs (further taxes). It cannot be profitable for at least 10 years. Douse this turkey for now. Feed the homeless and focus on citizen friendly government.
How about either:
An hourly bus or limo service between Sioux Falls, Sioux City, & Omaha airports. Park or taxi to either Sioux city and fly out of Omaha.
A new discount carrier airport near Beresford and I-29 serving both Sioux cities. Flights to Minneapolis, Chicago, or Denver connecting with same or different discount carrier.
I agree totally Doug, I think a sales tax is a poor way to fund government, because it is unpredictable and unfair to 90% of the people who pay it.
Douglas Wiken:
“Entertainment facilities at public expense don’t benefit the general public. They probably don’t even benefit the economy since much of the money coming in for big name entertainment flies out of Sioux Falls and South Dakota with the fleeing entertainers.”
I’m sorry, but you’re dead wrong on this point. Sioux City is paying off Tyson Center this year. Fargo spent $48 million to build the Dome and it generated a $142 million direct and a $320 million secondary econoomic impact in its first 10 years pf operation. Those aren’t projections, they are results.
If you do these places correctly, locate them in the right spot and fund them the right way, they pay a city back many times over in the first quarter of their lifepan. I think we spent $3 million on the SF Arena back in 1961, whic was a recession BTW. Are you seriously trying to argue we haven’t reaped 50 x or more that amount back since we built it?
Frankly, I am not sure I believe those numbers. If the costs of putting that money into the event centers is not considered, then a positive may show up.
If these kinds of centers are such wonderful ideas, why do they need public funding?
City officials should not be making decisions on the basis of how much sales tax revenue can be generated without considering real costs.
Any kind of production facility that converts low cost inputs into higher cost products that actually bring new money into a community are better than any kind of facility that moves money from Peter to Paul and in the process siphons out a heavy percentage to California or New York.
Yeah, whiz your tax money down that hole. Here’s the marker – 99% depreciation over 35 years. But, but, but it’ll pay for itself, they yammer. The loss does not include a $1.5 million annual bleeding for maintenance and up keep.
“Pontiac — Nearly 35 years after taxpayers spent $55.7 million building the Pontiac Silverdome and a year after a $20 million sale fell through, city officials have sold the arena once called the most desirable property in Oakland County.
The price: $583,000.
“This was a giveaway,” said David J. Leitch, a broker with an Auburn Hills based realty firm.””
http://www.detnews.com/article/20091117/METRO/911170327/1411/METRO02/Silverdome-sale-price-disappoints
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1635-Commercial-Real-Estate-Check-99%25-Loss.html
You’d get a better return on building a mountain, an ocean or a bunny ranch.
If it were a profitable idea the private sector would be all over it. It’s not. They’re not. Instead they await the socialization of costs, tactically waiting for the right time and circumstances to pluck out private profits. “This Time is Different” – NOT.
http://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691142165
Wow, Doug Wilken & John2. This consortium venue is truly productive. There seems to be a ‘no way, we’re not with you’. If city government was a democracy we could teach the council to blog and agree. However, King Dave has the final word. It will be dictatorial, final, punishing, unproductive, and eternal pain.
Seriously? You’re comparing us to Detroit? Arguably the worst metro in North America; and the Silverdome, home to arguably the worst pro franchise in history. Managed by a City & State that has arguably the second/third most corrupt & incompetent political leaders over the last few decades.
I think you’ve spent too much in this area of Detroit using it’s top imported product:
http://hpfolks.com/articles_2008/northpointe/pages/009.htm
One more gilded example that development NEVER pays for itself:
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/news/article_2683fb8c-d3f6-11de-b49e-001cc4c002e0.html
(And we didn’t have to leave the state for the example.)
John2:
One more gilded example that development NEVER pays for itself:
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/news/article_2683fb8c-d3f6-11de-b49e-001cc4c002e0.html
(And we didn’t have to leave the state for the example.)
and one more gilded example of a flawed and frankly, quite moronic comparison.
Feel free to leave the state, it’s obviously holding back your ability to be relevant.