Yvonne Taylor, Executive Director of the South Dakota Municipal League addressed the SF City council at the informational meeting on Monday. She said some interesting things. She was questioned about code enforcement, and she said (paraphrasing);
“You have to be careful about property rights.”
Yeah, NO shit?! Then she switched gears on the food tax, she seemed to support it because it was a ‘consistent’ revenue source and went on to say that the people that ‘can afford it’ don’t have a problem with paying it, and we need to get more help to the less fortunate.
Here’s the deal. Damn right the well-to-do support it! It makes poor people pay taxes while the rich skirt income taxes. It has already been proven that our state would be much better off if we had an income tax for people who made over $30,000 a year and eliminated sales taxes. We could probably even get rid of that disease called Video Lottery.
We know who runs South Dakota. Rich Republicans. I would love to throw tomatoes, if I could afford them.
Yup, rich republicans are running the state, it is so obvious! I’d like to be a democrat, but I can’t afford it.
Kinda meant that to be ‘tongue and cheek’ – I should have said, the rich and powerful run the state. However, I would like to point out that Dems have struggled for a long time to rid us of the food tax.
The thing I don’t like about the income tax is that there is a certain group in the state that will not pay any tax at all. The group that I am talking about is the one that buys new pickups at the end of the year and can write off direct tv as a business expense. The burden will be shifted to the basic wage earner, who will really get hit. They should quit screwing around and raise the state rate to 5% and take the tax off food.
Not nessarily, the way it works is if you make under $30,000 a year, you pay no state income tax.
You know it would never be that easy. There would be countless loopholes and tax rules that would make it just as confusing as filing federal taxes. Then, whenever we had a year where the state couldn’t figure out a way to balance the budget, they would “tweak” the income tax system to their liking in order to gain more revenue.
That is why a flat salestax works so much better – because if you think for a second that adding an income tax will be the end of a sales tax you are fooling yourself. Besides, don’t we already have a program in place that allows low income people to get a rebate on their sales tax paid on food? So you are telling me I should feel sympathy if someone is too lazy to fill out some paperwork in order to get their money back?
Thanks, but no thanks. A state income tax is a bad way to raise state revenue. It would also reduce by one the number of reasons companies relocate to our state. Like it or not, those companies bring jobs – and if they don’t come here that means those jobs are gone forever.
As to the food tax being unfair, who dictates what is a necessity and what is not? So poor people shouldn’t have to pay a tax on food but it is ok to pay tax on medications or diabetes test strips? It is ok to pay property taxes on the house they live in? It is ok to pay sales taxes on the clothing on their backs… even if it purchased from Goodwill or Savers?
You can soon see that there are a lot more things considered necessary to live, and if you take away one tax sooner or later others will think they should be included as well. Hy-Vee and Sunshine and Walmart would love the idea of a tax-free food state and I’m sure they are filtering their share of money to fund such an effort, but in the reality the tax burden upon the people won’t change one bit.
But Costner, if you eliminate the food tax, you eliminate for everyone. The rebate program is fucking stupid.
That is sort of my point. You take away the food tax you are taking it away from everyone… Even those who could afford it. The rebate program might be stupid but at least it works for those willing to get of their asses to fill out a form.
When Bread for the World was advocating getting rid of the food tax, they determined that like 1% of families that were eligible for the rebate were using it. In other words, it is fucking stupid.
The Municipal League defines Home Rule as Oligarchy (rule by a few). They state it can become dictatorship.
I compared Sioux Falls real estate tax with Englewood CO. We pay 1/3 more. Colorado state income tax doesn’t kick in until 30,000.
There’s no tax on food or clothing in Minnesota. Worthington has a Walmart and Kohl’s. Plan a car pool to Mall of America for back to school.
Amazon ships tax free into SD and there’s no shipping on most orders over $25. With specials, Omaha Steaks is cheaper. They ship free and there’s no tax. You get a free styrofoam cooler. Other web sites have similar policys.
If Sioux Falls is not democracy, I’ll go outof my way to not support it.
“Plan a car pool to Mall of America for back to school.”
And while we are there, take in a punk rock show at the 7th Street Entry.
Plan a car pool to Mall of America for back to school.
If you go to MPLS to have a good time and shop at the MOH, that’s cool. But don’t pretend you’re doing it to save money on sales taxes.
It would take a lot of clothing purchases to make up in sales tax savings what you lose paying for gas there and back.
OK, take the 9 passenger Suburban. MOA is much more entertaining than the ‘Huether Empire’ mall. Take mass transit downtown to museums or a twins game.
It’s democracy there. Bask in it because you’ll have to come back to repression.
I always like the rational driving to Minnesota for groceries or clothing to get out of paying sales taxes. It costs over .50 cents a mile to run a car when gas, insurance and etc are taken into consideration plus the time of driving to Luverne or Worthington to save $6 on $100 worth of clothes.
l3wis “When Bread for the World was advocating getting rid of the food tax, they determined that like 1% of families that were eligible for the rebate were using it.”
Refer to my original post where I said the following: “So you are telling me I should feel sympathy if someone is too lazy to fill out some paperwork in order to get their money back?”
I mean come on Scott… if people can’t even be bothered to ask for their tax refund, then why the hell should we restructure the entire state tax system for their benefit? That is catering to the lowest common denominator by spoon feeding idiots.
A state income tax has far more negatives than positives, and it will never happen so you may as well find a new issue to champion. Maybe it is time to get behind the idea of personal responsibility. If someone is so burdened by that pesky food tax, then they should be more than willing to do the legwork so they don’t have to pay it.
Then again, how many people who are eligible for food tax rebates are already using an EBT card for their food purchases anyway? I don’t think this is nearly as big of an issue as some would have us believe.
Costner is correct.
No way shoud we contemplate a State income tax at this point. We already have worked our asses off to keep our overall tax burden among the top 10 lowest in the Nation, alongside places like Anchorage, AK & Fargo, ND.
BTW, this timely article is in no way coincidental:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2622998620100726
The North Dakota oil reserves is what has done wonders to their state budget surplus & the creation of jobs. SD just has cheap labor.
I’m still trying to figure out why eliminating the food tax for EVERYONE is such a bad thing?
It’s democracy there. Bask in it because you’ll have to come back to repression.
Funny. I don’t FEEL repressed here – at least not since I was a teenager.
l3wis: “I’m still trying to figure out why eliminating the food tax for EVERYONE is such a bad thing?”
You can’t just erase one tax without adding another to offset it, so we all know that means an income tax.
Elected officials can’t mess around with tax rates on food like they can mess with an income tax. Rest assured if you enacted an income tax the overall tax burden on the citizens would rise… not fall.
Oh sure the poorest of the poor who never pay any income tax might come out ahead, but for the middle class or average joe there is no net benefit. It merely shifts tax from one area to another – like raising sales taxes on gasoline and reducing license plate fees.
Those people who are really impacted by a sales tax on food already have a solution if they are so inclined to pursue it. As you note if only 1% of those eligible are even bothering to seek their sales tax refund, then it would seem 99% don’t think that amount of money is worth their time and/or they are ignorant of the program existing.
The proposal was to eliminate the tax on ‘unprepared’ foods and raise it about .5% on everything else.
if people can’t even be bothered to ask for their tax refund, then why the hell should we restructure the entire state tax system for their benefit? That is catering to the lowest common denominator by spoon feeding IDIOTS.
Idiots cos? Unlike you, who can pontificate on blogs ALL day long while on the company nickel, most of these people are struggling double digit hours for single digit wages. They are far from being IDIOTS. That’s just you bein an asshole and a TOOL.
From endthefoodtax.org
No matter how simple the paperwork, low-income people are missed for a multitude of reasons. They (and now also middle-income families) have many stresses and time consuming issues. They lack financial advisors keeping them signed up for available benefits. Many don’t find out, or think it is not for them, or are embarrassed to go to the grocery store with a state debit card. Many are ill, mentally incapable, emotionally distraught, or simply dealing with the crises that come more often the lower the income. Let’s face it, juggling several jobs, children, and trying to manage on too little income can be overwhelming enough to miss out on a lot of what life has to offer.
WHO ARE MISSED BY THE PROGRAM? At the time of the 2000 Census, South Dakota had about 94,000 low-income households. All except 630 are missed by the program. Even the households with food stamps [about 35,000 in Sept.’09] pay tax on the food they buy with cash when food stamps run out. Some families get only a small amount of food stamps, like $25 a month, and buy most of their food with cash paying tax on every item.
So far, there is no way to accomplish food tax relief — unless it is automatic. What would be automatic? Cutting the tax itself. The benefit would miss no one. Even a 1% cut in the food tax would provide more benefit to low-income people, as a group, than the refund program does.
l3wis The proposal was to eliminate the tax on ‘unprepared’ foods and raise it about .5% on everything else.
So shift the burden elsewhere… stellar idea. So now we are saying unprepared foods are a necessity and thus should not be taxed, but clothing, tylenol and soap are not necessities thus the tax on them should go up.
I fail to see how that is any better.
Poly: Idiots cos? Unlike you, who can pontificate on blogs ALL day long while on the company nickel, most of these people are struggling double digit hours for single digit wages. They are far from being IDIOTS. That’s just you bein an asshole and a TOOL.
First of all your continual personal attacks aside, I’m hardly on blogs all day. In fact I probably spent a whopping 8 minutes here today (the one and only blog I frequent by the way), and averaged about 2 to 3 minutes a day on this blog over the past three weeks. If that pisses you off then so be it… I could care less.
Second, if you are so sure people aren’t idiots, then please explain why (according to the figure l3wis cited) 99% of them aren’t seeking their sales tax refund?
I’d be willing to retract my “idiot” statement but I’d have to replace it with idiot and/or ignorant and/or simply lazy and/or those who don’t feel the sales tax is a burden to the point it isn’t worth seeking a few bucks of a refund.
So since you clearly have all the answers… which is it? 99% of those who qualify aren’t bothering to ask for their refund so there must be a reason right?
Ah heck – forget the figures. Let’s just raise all the other taxes so we can feel better about ourselves. Then next year we can decide that clothing is a necessity so we will have to eliminate that tax too. The year after that maybe band-aids are a necessity, and since people have to get to work gasoline and tires are necessities too. Might as well replace all taxes with an income tax except we will need to exclude retired people with pensions – because they worked all their life and deserve to be treated a bit special in their old age.
Costner are you talking about the tax rebate for food, or the sales tax rebate that low income seniors and disabled people qualify for? Not everybody is aware of either one of those programs. Even if they were it is down right rude of you to talk that way about anybody.
Red- I don’t think it is rude. I think it is stupid that anyone would justify a tax on food.
Quote from Costner
“….. It would also reduce by one the number of reasons companies relocate to our state. Like it or not, those companies bring jobs – and if they don’t come here that means those jobs are gone forever……”
Costner – since when have these “companies relocating to our state” been doing that???? What companies? What jobs?
How can you argue around losing something we already don’t have???
Quote from Sy:
“Costner is correct.
No way shoud we contemplate a State income tax at this point. We already have worked our asses off to keep our overall tax burden among the top 10 lowest in the Nation, alongside places like Anchorage, AK & Fargo, ND……”
Yeah Sy, and right along with ND and AK, SD is just BOOMING economically – right? I mean, haven’t we been gaqinign congressional seats and population and jobs like friggin’ ctrazy because of our tax policies?
I mean, yooze guys can argue the theoretical impact of beng a “low tax state” as a development attracytant all you want. But the ACTUAL Census numbers (including Dept. of Commerce economic census data) tell a very different story.
28 comments indicates taxation is unequal and a sensative subject.
It’s time for emancipation from unconstitutional government and high taxes on low incomes but don’t move to Bell, CA.
“The proposal was to eliminate the tax on ‘unprepared’ foods and raise it about .5% on everything else.”
That’s where it starts. Next people complain that low-income people don’t have the time to prepare their meals, so we need to eliminate the tax on deli foods and pre-made sandwiches. Then we learn that poor people buy a lot of Twinkies and Hostess cup-cakes, so we have to eliminate the sales taxes on those too. Then we find out that they’re actually going through the Burger King drive through to save even more time, so we’ve got to drop the sales taxes there too.
Then we get to clothes and so on.
Then we talk about how our sales tax system isn’t bringing in enough income, so we start up a small income tax. The we start spending more and the income taxes go up.
Yep, class warfare is fun. Let’s head down that route with our tax code.
Really want to eliminate a tax that will have a real impact on low-income people and give them more buying power? Get rid of the cigarette taxes.
Class warfare? If we eliminate the tax on food, no one has to pay it, rich or poor. That is why I don’t agree with the rebate program, that is an example of ‘class warfare’.
“…Damn right the well-to-do support it! It makes poor people pay taxes while the rich skirt income taxes. It has already been proven that our state would be much better off if we had an income tax for people who made over $30,000 a year and eliminated sales taxes…”
Yep, it’s about everyone. No class warfare going on here.
I’m also curious to what standard we’d be better off with an income tax that only affects those that make over $30,000?
Complicating the tax code benefits no one. A predictable sales tax with almost no compliance cost is a good thing for everyone. It’s also a lot easier to skirt an income tax than it is to skirt a sales tax.
rufusx,
I never said we were booming, but all things considered we aren’t that bad. Nothing like the late 70’s early ’80’s. Unemployment & foreclosure rates are half of National averages. We just saw Sales tax receipts up 6%. Construction is steady, but not at the breakneck pace it was back in ’05.
I guess I’d like you to site and source comparable places that have higher taxes & wages that are doing markedly better than Sioux Falls these days.