If the city is hurting so bad for sewer and water monies, why are they sending out expensive gloss inserts? A simple insert explaining the increase is fine (like they did last time) but a BJ piece like this is a waste and an obvious piece of propaganda. But of course, look who is in charge, Mr. Propaganda himself.
The typical water/sewer bill is now 8.5% higher. The rank and file water and water reclamation employees have had their wages frozen once again, yet the water superintendent enjoyed a 5.25% pay increase this year.
Looked at the brochure real close. Did not see that nugget.
There are two major projects being performed right now including an expansion of the water treatment plant and the reclamation plant. Add to that the obvious needs to improve sewer infrastructure to prevent the need to pump raw sewage into the river, and the fact that we are still partially funding that project bringing water in from the Missouri River via pipeline.
All things considered, this increase isn’t unsurprised and has been planned for at least a year or two. Even after the increase Sioux Falls water rates are still lower than many cities in the area, so we don’t have much room to complain. It isn’t like they are making a windfall on water and sewer rates which are being diverted into some secret evernts center slush fund… the water and sewer bills fund water and sewer projects (which are needed and have been neglected for years).
Of course if someone thinks the mayor has anything to do with mailers sent from the public works department I doubt any amount of facts are going to sway their opinion.
I agree with most of your post Costner. What I don’t like is middle to upper level management types in the city enjoying sizeable salary increases every time an increase in city services comes along, while the rank and file bite the bullet.
…and about our mayor. As I recall, if you watch any of his listening and learning indoctrinations, the good mayor repeats adnauseum how he is doing more with less. Gonna fix our infrastructure. Gonna build a McArena. All while cutting the city budget. What he fails to mention in all his glory is just how all this stuff is gonna be funded. That’s right. Good ol Joe SixPack is gonna fund it. Joe still gets his stagnant wages. City middle management gets their slice of the pie, and the mayor rides off on his white horse.
Follow the money. Who did the insert?
l3wis. You’re an expert in this field. What do you think it cost the city to give us all that warm and fuzzy feelin in our gut?
That’s about a $3500 insert, not including the media services on it and research. But that is not the point. This isn’t about Mike and the current council, it is about Munson ‘did no wrong’ he squandered record sales tax revenue on shit while neglecting, well, shit delivery. Now all of sudden we have our rates increased to fix it. Bullshit. Or should I say. Humanshit. Suck it up, find the money from the CIP and general fund. Cut the Zoo, the Pavilion, Great Bear etc. Why is it that the first knee-jerk reaction is to raise rates? Enough.
I would hardly say it is a knee-jerk reaction l3wis. Water and sewer rates are normally announced months if not a year in advance. We knew with the expansion projects it was only a matter of time – and NO – money for water and sewer projects should not come from the general fund.
The funds for water and sewer projects should come directly from users that actually use the system. The more you use, the more you pay… it is by far the most equitable way to do things. We shouldn’t need to cut other city services and sacrifice massive cuts elsewhere when our water rates are already lower than other cities around us and our infrastructure has been underfunded for years (thus the issues we saw with failing sewage pipes).
You can’t have it both ways. You don’t get to bitch about dumping raw sewage into the river and then turn around and complain about an increase in rates that will go directly into the very infrastructure that could prevent such an issue in the first place.
I agree with your post Costner. Funding should come from those who use it. But 8.5 % is a lot for the typical stagnated and underemployed SF worker to swallow. The mayor said recently SF city workers would also make sacrifices, and willingly so in his quest to lower the budget. So ALL rank and file city employees make that needed sacrifice while the already financially healthy water superintendent gets cut a 5.25% pay increase? Same with a lot of middle to upper management types in the city. Oh…and don’t forget the good mayor. He also cut himself a raise.
Costner, I’m not against rate increases, I just question why we had none for several years (I believe it was 13 years) That tells me something, that the system wasn’t broken. Part of the increase is going into a ‘savings account’ I don’t believe the city should have huge reserves, pay as you go, keep up with infrastructure. half of the city budget goes towards things like sewer and water. Our water and sewer fees should go towards expansion, maintenance and operation. Infrastructure upgrades should come out of the general fund.
l3wis your logic is flawed. You are once again under the impression just because the rates didn’t change for several years that everything must be fine. You made the same failed argument when Xcel raised their rates – and it all boils down to you misunderstanding that costs rise – there is such a thing as inflation, and there is no possible way to sustain a fixed price in a modern economy.
I mean honestly – if the numbers quoted here are accurate you are talking about a 8.5% increase over a 13 year period – how the FAUX can you complain about that! The price of god damn toilet paper has increased exponentially more than the water used to flush it! An increase of well under 1% a year frankly is amazing – and yet unsustainable over the long term.
Just think about it – for those 13 years do you think the price of the chemicals used to treat our water went up in price? Do you think the employees who work at the treatment plant ever got a raise? Do you think the cost for infrastructure and improvements remained stagnant?
Get real – everything from the paperclips used in the front office to the postage costs to mail the bills, to the meters themselves to the massive costs required to build a new watertower… ALL costs rise.
As to your comment about pay as you go… yea we see how well that has worked thus far – it literally leaves us in a shitty place. We know the system was in fact broken – because we witnessed it being broke and the millions it will eventually require to repair and upgrade all of the failure points. I’d much rather have a rainy day fund for such a thing as opposed to running out and having to issue bonds to cover an enhancement and/or expansion project.
They were pretty original in getting the picture of the woman holding the glass of water. Especially since they did so much work flipping it.
http://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/1663R-57182
it all boils down to you misunderstanding that costs rise – there is such a thing as inflation, and there is no possible way to sustain a fixed price in a modern economy.
That would make perfect sense IF middle class salaries were on that same trajectory. They are not…so that is why Joe SixPack is misunderstanding.
Poly are you seriously going to suggest middle class salaries haven’t increased more than 8.5% in the past 13 years? Give me a break – that isn’t even remotely accurate.
Stop trying to make everything about how much people are paid. I doubt you will find many people who will disagree with your viewpoints on the admin vs. line level employees around here, but not every subject about city finances needs to turn into a complaint session about wages.
@CCFlyer – using stock photography is probably a cheaper way to go and looks more professional. Sure they could have taken a picture of a woman from Sioux Falls, but she would have needed to sign a legal release which would have been reviewed by city attorneys wasting more time and money than a click of a mouse to buy a one-time use of a stock photo.
Poly are you seriously going to suggest middle class salaries haven’t increased more than 8.5% in the past 13 years? Give me a break – that isn’t even remotely accurate.
In a lot of instances, salaries have not increased in the last 13 years. In fact, some have gone down. Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, painters, most anyone in the trades. Ask l3wis about people who run a printing press, or any other similar type of tasks. Same with people in the service industry. The list goes on. White co9llar has kept. Blue collar? No way.
Poly is right. And to tell you the truth, Sy, you are not from a position to comment on it. You are heir to a family business, you have never been on the ‘other side’
I’m not being a dick, just stating the facts.
You guys are seriously disconnected if you don’t think even blue collar workers have raised their salaries 8.5% in the last 13 years. Think about it – it is 2011, so you are saying that since 1998 wages haven’t went up or in some cases went down?
That is 0.65% a year increase – even the worst union in the nation has averaged more than that, and if an employee averages less than 1% a year raise for over a decade I’d wager they are doing something wrong.
Even the minimum wage went from $5.15 an hour to $7.25 an hour during that period (an increase of over 40%), so please don’t make wild claims without some evidence. Sure if you dig enough you might find some industry which has dramatically shifted and lost jobs to overseas workers or has been replaced by other technologies – but that isn’t the norm.
I don’t have hard numbers for Sioux Falls, but I’m certain real wages have increased more than 8.5% over the past 13 years. Obviously the past couple of years have been flat for most workers across the board, but the late 90s and early 2000s were fairly good for most workers – well above .65%.
BTW L3wis – did I miss something here because I don’t see a single comment from Sy in this entire article.
That is 0.65% a year increase – even the worst union in the nation has averaged more than that, and if an employee averages less than 1% a year raise for over a decade I’d wager they are doing something wrong.
You’ve hit upon the key word Costner. UNION
Sure, IF you are a city, state, or federal union employee, then yes, you have realized some raises, not enough to keep up with inflation, but still…raises none the less. Same if you are in the nursing field and in their union.
This town used to have a good union for those in the trades. Not so anymore. They have been nearly completely dismantled. Before I entered into the career I retired from I was in the trades. In 1976 I became a journeyman and made $34 an hour in todays money. That was a non union shop. That same union journeyman made $39 an hour in todays money. Today, those same journeymen are toiling in those fields for half that kind of money. And with those wildly “way too high” salaries of 1976 you could still go out and buy a nice home for under $50,000. That same home today, built with non union underpaid tradesmen sells for $250,000. So… where’s the money going?
I can probably say the same for the service industry. Same for the printing business. Same for nearly all the middle income Joe SixPacks out there.
Todays median Sioux Falls income hovers right at $14.00 an hour. That is $3.62 an hour in 1976 money. I’m here to tell you that was poverty level wages in 1976.
Why is it so low? Because we have no unions anymore. Those we do have, to some some degree, keep our city’s wages from being completely down the toilet.
So 13 years ago the median income might have been $10.00 an hour. Now it’s a whoppin $14.00 an hour.
Whoopty f’n do.
“BTW L3wis – did I miss something here because I don’t see a single comment from Sy in this entire article.”
Sorry, I get you two confused sometimes.
Poly, you forgot to also mention that the breakup of the unions is the direct result of illegal immigration. Funny how Neo-cons rail against unions then turn around and bitch about illegal immigration. You freaking caused it.
l3wis. Your last post reminds me of a fundraiser I went to last November. It was the annual Law Enforcement Dinner. Raises money for kids. Normally it’s not an event with a guest speaker with a political agenda. This year it was. Had a sheriff here from Arizona. A skinhead laying out all the phobia of illegal immigration, and how it is affecting even South Dakota. Yep, it’s all the fault of those evil brown people here stealing our jobs, and bringing in drugs.
There were at least a couple thousand people in attendance. A table for ten cost $500.00. Kevin Wooster was the MC, and even our good mayor was there to chime in on how lucky he was to be mayor. Lotsa laughter and lotsa beer flowing freely at every table. What caught my eye was this. There were probably 50 people there waiting tables, and making sure all the empty beer bottles were off the tables after the bottles were emptied. Those 50 people waiting on the likes of our skinheaded fearmongering sheriff from Arizona? Thats right. Them evil brown people from south of the border.
Talk about hypocrisy.
Kinda reminds you of this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C45g3YP7JOk
Yes poly I did say union, but unless I see some figures I don’t have any reason to believe non-union wages haven’t increased at the same rate as union wages over the past 13 years.
You also conveniently ignored the fact that minimum wage workers have realized over a 40% gain during the period you are trying to claim saw no increases. If anyone needs a raise it is minimum wage workers, so that just goes to show that their wages actually increased about five times as much as their water bills during that same period.
Time to build a bridge and get over the water bill issue. Our rates are still pretty damn low. Move to Harrisburg or Tea and let me know if you still think Sioux Falls rates are high.
Woo Hoo! A 40% gain! While CEO’s have gotten 10x that, with a 400% gain.
Pretty fair, huh?
Class warfare again? Really?
I’m not defending CEO salaries so I’m not sure why you bring it into the issue. It has nothing to do with water rates or the invalid working poor argument Poly attempted to make.
Not sure about your 400% figure in any case – but I would doubt you have supporting evidence to back it up. It still doesn’t change the fact your original argument against water rates falls flat as does the argument that this whopping 8.5% increase is outpacing “middle class salaries” because I’ve shown that to not be the case.
I get the distinct impression that inflation is a gray concept to you. There are very few costs in this world that will remain fixed in a market based economy, so how anyone could suggest water rates or electrical rates should never go up even after a decade of fixed pricing really makes me wonder if you understand the very basics of economics or driving forces behind inflation and the markets.
Not to mention the hypocrisy involved with complaining about water/sewer rates while a short time ago complaining about sewer infrastructure.
Class warfare? More like highway robbery.
http://sustainabilityculture.com/archives/404
In a 2006 article written by US Senator Jim Webb, he addressed an increasing disparity between salaries of CEOs and their employees, where CEO salaries top 400 x the amount of their average employee, vs 20 years ago when the difference was 20 x.
It has nothing to do with water rates or the invalid working poor argument Poly attempted to make.
It is very much about the working poor Costner. When the median wage in SF is in fact $14.00 an hour, then yes indeed, it is about the working poor. Maybe a $4.00 a month increase in a water bill, or $3.25 and soon to be $4.00 a gallon gas, or spiraling spikes in food and clothing is no big deal to a guy like you, but it is to people who’s disposable incomes are at or near nothing.
I’m sure you’ve read it before, but it bears repeating. When I graduated from highschool, I had one future and one future only. The military draft. I knew it. My potential employers knew it. I found an entry level job in a warehouse after graduation that kept me employed for about a year til I left for the military. That entry level pay, I remember well, was $2.25 an hour in 1967. Not much you say? Well, it was $14.84 an hour in todays money. Think about that. An entry level job in a warehouse that pays MORE than todays median Sioux Falls income. There are over 70,000 jobs in Sioux Falls that do not pay $14.84 an hour.
As you helped me discover, we also have 45% of school kids on free or reduced lunch programs because of poverty level wages prevelant in good ol Sioux Falls.
So yeah, I ‘spose you think Joe SixPack is gettin a hell of a bargain with their water rates because their wages went from 10 to $14.00 an hour in 13 years.
Big f’in deal. They are slipping more each day into poverty.
“It is very much about the working poor Costner”
No… no its not. Not everything can surround the working poor and you are just as much of a one-issue guy as Plaintiff Guy – even if you do have more than one username.
You attempt to tie every single issue to wages – and if that is your primary desire in life so be it, but if you can figure out a way to stop inflation, you will also bring the economy to its knees.
Would you rather Joe Sixpack saved that 8.5% in water rates and went back to $10 an hour? That seems slightly silly since that equates to about $640 in lost monthly income while the increase in water rates will equate to about $5 a month for the typical homeowner.
This is about water rates which you two have failed to make a valid argument on why they shouldn’t be raised. I know you would like to ignore that, but that is really all this is about. In your perfect world maybe gas would stay at $2.25 a gallon and water would be free and groceries would never go up in cost all so the “Joe Sixpack” types could get along a little easier, but that isn’t realistic.
You can’t put the economy on hold until you get wages to a level you deem acceptable.
In your perfect world maybe gas would stay at $2.25 a gallon and water would be free and groceries would never go up in cost all so the “Joe Sixpack†types could get along a little easier, but that isn’t realistic.
You can’t put the economy on hold until you get wages to a level you deem acceptable.
What is realistic in your world Cos? Joe goin from middleclass to working poor? Gotcha
You two outta get a room.
Poly: “What is realistic in your world Cos? Joe goin from middleclass to working poor? Gotcha”
Still trying to put words in my mouth? I don’t recall ever saying that. Now you are just being ignorant by trying to suggest a 8.5% increase over the period of 13 years is going to move someone from middle class to working poor, yet once again you have not shown any facts or figures to support such a conclusion. I’ve already shown those who make the lowest wages of all (minimum wage workers) have received a 40% increase in salary over those 13 years and as such they are far ahead of the rising utility rates, but hey lets just ignore facts because we don’t wish to be proven wrong again right?
I guess this is the part you have realized you can’t support your viewpoint, so you need to start backtracking, and trying to play the red herring argument. I think the next step is for you to refer to your play book and pull out an unrelated quote I said two or three years ago, so I’ll be looking forward to that one as I’m quite certian you aren’t about to admit the fact that our water rates are still reasonable if not a bargain when compared to our peers and you surely aren’t going to admit that wages have outpaced water and sewer increases over the past decade.
Those pesky facts – they always make it so hard to debate things don’t they poly?