That, of course, according to a SPECULATIVE study, by a company that is getting paid by the city that is run by Mike Huether. This of course is not surprise. Mike has made it pretty clear he wanted it at the Arena site because that’s what voters would support – according to him. But, to be honest with you, if we voted on an Events Center tomorrow, I don’t think it would CUT THE MUSTARD.
If you watch the informational meeting, you will see that many ‘hidden costs’ with both locations have been left out, that is why I call this a ‘Speculative Study’.
While it pains me to say this, I do agree with the BID group on many levels, and I will not get into that. But I will say this, no matter where we build it, it will be expensive, that’s a given and we all know the true cost of the facility is not realistically being presented. The ‘$100 million number is laughable at best.
That is not what the debate is about.
What is the debate about? Will taxpayers approve bonding for this structure? I guess that is the last question that every single freaking EC task force wants to ask, yet they have known all along it is the final hammer. Drop it already.
Now, there’s the downtown group who will vote no. I just don’t think this could fly with voters. It’s Huether’s concept and obsession. We’re not with him. He’s found many media moments for many things. It’s always ‘We’re doing this, we are’ but nothing’s happened. In this dictatorship, he has the power to start EC construction without a vote. By the time we get him recalled, it’ll be the 2014 election. When you elect a CEO type, you get a crook. This credit card type has experience raising limits so taxpayers pay minimums but never reduce the principal.
I watched the informational meeting and the Q & A on 16. Arrogant and disrespectful to the audience I thought, especially the guy in charge of directing questions. Funding people! Until we know that, how is all this relevant? Some distrust of the city people would you say?
The whole AECOM study assumes we can within a year of opening we can secure 34 events a year that require the magical “flat floor space” requirement..ie conventions/trade shows needing more space than our current 60,000 sf Convention Center. So our new 40,000 sf Events Center will need to open up and can be made a 100,000 sf space. They plug in an average attendance of 3,400 people in these events, so I’ll ask this question: What kind of show or convention needs 100K sf of space in order to bring in 3,400 people? Maybe Heavy
Equipment or RV’s, but what are the other 32 shows?
I have not watched the informational meeting on channel 16 yet. I will say this before I begin watching. This whole process has been a dog and pony show from the beginning. I stand in the camp that questions the need for an EC at all. Remember Don Meredith? My favorite line of his was , “If if and buts were candy and nuts, it would be X-mas everyday.” IF we truly had the need, IF we had a funding package secured that left my parents out of it, and IF we had the big rollers like T Denny lining up to build it, then this should have been built DT.
I guess it can be X-mas every day when you control the study people with candy and nuts.
Poly, I agree with you.
Well, this guarantees that the tired subject won’t die when the vote goes against it. I believe that the voters would turn down either location, but BID will have the scapegoat they need to keep babbling about it.
I think location should be on the ballot also with the funding source. Kill two birds with one fucking stone already.
Bah. As Sy says, basically the whole difference comes from these 34 “flat-floor” events which have tons of people staying overnight. Most of these WILL OCCUR ANYWAY at the current convention center, whether or not there is the extra expandable space. The expandable space may draw in one or two new events, but this is not NEW revenue that an Arena site will produce. This revenue would even be produced if the event center were built downtown, since the convention center / arena would still be around to provide convention space. This overlooked detail seems dishonest.
Actually Scott, BID will be the scapegoat if it goes down in flames…which it should. The Mayor never does anything without a fall guy in place.
Next performer warming up: Naming rights with the Superlaxitive Group.
You have proven one thing, this process was sloppy from the beginning 🙂
Stu Whitney on twitter – Build It Downtown begged for economic analysis on events center and now question validity because it went against them. Zero credibility.
of course stu whitney wants a new event center. he probably hasn’t paid for a ticket or hot dog himself since he’s been at the argus.
LOL!
Again, the AECOM report is stating we can lure 34 events a year here that won’t come now because we only have 60,000 sf of space, but will come when we have a hallway leading to 35,000 more. (and yes, I took SCD’s drawing and scaled it out)
If we knock down the wall between the Arena and Convention Center, and install the same modular seating that they will use in the new EC, we add about 25,000 square feet of flat floor space again seperated by a hallway. This would run maybe $5 million to do.
Cooper was on KSFY a few weeks back saying we currently get a $19 million impact form the Arena & Convention Center, we add the EC on the end and all of a sudden that goes to $44 million?
Also, the AECOM report states that “there is an estimated $500 million of in planned or proposed downtown projects” and “This compares to $6.7 million at the Arena/Convention Center site”.
and in the same paragraph they state “However, we assume that hotel development at the Arena/Convention Center site would be greater, due to increased demand for flat-floor events at this site”.
Really? Based on industy averages, a 100 room mid-range hotel will cost about $20 million, so it looks like we’ll see another Arena Motel go in with our $100 million stimulus project if you can find a place to put it.
http://www.fixr.com/costs/build-hotel
Stu-schbag and Greg Barfrage are in lockstep with the Mayor on the Event Center and all of these small thinkers actually work downtown.
So it’s wrong for anybody to have a differing opinion?
What are your thoughts on Jamison on the Council?
I voted Stagger’s last go around.
I don’t think I could support Costello for Mayor… EVER!
This is what I will say about Jamison, he’s coming around. We have had many great convos in person and on the phone about politics in SF. I have reminded him to always be honest and transparent, and that will earn you respect. The truth will never bite you in the ass. If he keeps on that path, you will see that he will be a formidable candidate for mayor in 2014. Sure, there is things I disagree with Greg on, just like I do with Kermit, but I also think that the best way to run a city is to be honest and stick to fundamentals.
Scott:
“So it’s wrong for anybody to have a differing opinion?”
Not at all, but considering all three of the above mentioned people attacked BID initially instead of at least trying to hear them out would indicate all three don’t exactly like differing opinions on that topic or any other one for that matter.
And I do agree with most of your assesment about the music industry and I didn’t when I first read it so, yes minds can be changed.
Same goes for PG and the other thread.
Sy, I think if voters approve it, it should be built DT. I don’t think I have ever wavered on that position, except for my silly comments about building it by the mall 🙂 I just want to point out the obvious, a funding source MUST come first and be approved by the voters. I remember about 12 years ago one of my cars broke down, for good, and I was not expecting it. The first thing I asked a car dealership was ‘what can I afford’ with my credit rating. I didn’t give a shit about what brand I was going to buy, or even the color of it. South Dakotans are tightwads, they want the biggest bang for their buck, and if you think money is not the most important factor, Hildy has you more brainwashed then I thought.
Scott,
I would suggest you consider jumping into a council run. If you were a Kermit Staggers you would have cross party apeal.
I had a little fun with this issue today on KRRO – http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1549631/KRRO.mp3
Scott – That is pretty good. Build it Nowhere. I think I am going to come up with a logo.
Yes, do it!!!
L3wis:
“South Dakotans are tightwads, they want the biggest bang for their buck, and if you think money is not the most important factor, Hildy has you more brainwashed then I thought.”
A. No shit Sherlock. BID’s entire point is to maximize the return on investment so we don’t have to raise taxes in other areas to pay for the thing…ie make the pie bigger, both Reagan and Clinton made hay on that basic point.
B. As you know, I’ve been hammering on this issue for several years. Hilde came around after the 2010 election and after he realized his former client was hell bent on repeating the Convention Center mistake.
and sure, we’re a political odd couple but that’s how the whole group is. We have several people who are more conservative than me and several who are as liberal as Hilde. The Mayor is extremely liberal and he has Belfrage slobbering all over him these days.
Return on who’s investment? The taxpayer’s? What do we get in return? Sure, some developers and franchise people will make some dough, but like I have said before, the trickle down to the average Joe in town is not worth the cost. We have a wonderful city with low crime and beautiful parks, we don’t need an EC to make it better. I just saw an aamzing show in a basement of a bar for $10. We didn’t need to have an EC for that.
Couldn’t agree with you more. We shouldn’t get ourselves into millions of dollars of debt for something that isn’t a necessity.