It is no secret these two have opposed the mayor and his events center plan. But I will have to give them credit for publicly speaking out against it. I know Vernon doesn’t like the funding plan and Jamison would prefer we remodeled the Arena. Can’t wait to see their 10 points.
Their “top 10†included how the proposed plan for the $115 million facility is to borrow 100 percent of the money, how there are no signed tenants for the proposed facility and examples of city projects that could potentially be cut in order to make the annual loan payment of $9 million after the facility is built.
I’ve been a big fan of both councilors for a long time. I live in Councilor Jamison’s district and have told him as much. The 10 points cover the things I’ve been thinking about as I’ve studied the issue. Nothing is free, everything has an opportunity cost and there is no free lunch. There are endless examples but as an example proponents point out the construction jobs that will be created which I don’t dispute. But what isn’t pointed out is that there is a finite amount of money. If we spend money to build this, common sense dictates certain other construction projects will be delayed. So to some extent, where you gain jobs on one project, you lose jobs that would have been created to say construct a new library or build a new road. So its not like all of these jobs magically appear with no cost or transfer from somewhere else. This is one of countless examples. To the extent you borrow to create jobs now, you might be stealing from the future, meaning you have to pay this debt off which necessarily means funds you would have had available to build things in later years you can’t because you are making debt service payments. So some jobs gained now could mean some lost later. My only point is that you must weigh the pros with the cons and not assume you get all benefit with no cost. You must also weigh whether its the most efficient use of money (opportunity cost), the right plan, at the right time, etc. The 10 points are very thought provoking and should be read by all.
I’m quite glad to hear this but I am expecting the respectable Mayor to say something like, “Hey, I was urging these guys to get out there and make a statement like this so that we can have some balance. I would encourage honesty from all our city counsel members.”
Ugh, Your Man Mike is currently whining on KELO about how these mean people are scaring the voters.
Good for them!
I really wish to stand out by the polls and hand out what the lies have been and what the truth is. Thought about standing in front of the mall…….. and grocery stores ………… but, alas I am only one person.
Do you suppose MMM got on the phone with those two and ripped them a new one?
Earlier this afternoon there was a pc about this on the home page of the AL………….
Now they’ve buried it so deep, I can’t even find it………..
And, they call this journalism……….??!!!!
Here is basically a transcript, H/T – Greg N.
Greg
I want to thank everyone for attending today. We want to start off with a couple introductory comments and then we’ll get into the substance of our “Ten Things You Should Know Before You Vote November 8.â€
Councilor Brown and I have a long record of advocating for an events center in Sioux Falls. We’ve both campaigned on it. We both believe there are benefits it could bring to the community some day.
But we come at this with a different perspective. As Councilors we look at all the numbers… not just the event center numbers. We have to be responsible for the entire budget and future budgets of the city.
Vernon
That’s why it’s important for you to understand our message today is not any ballot issue group. It’s two Councilors. Greg and I have had many discussions about our concerns for how future councils will manage city budgets.
We are here to present facts regarding the November 8th vote that voters need to consider. We both are getting constituents calling, emailing and approaching us and asking us about what they need to consider as they decide on this vote.
Our goal is that they go to the polls fully informed, understand this isn’t any sort of a live or die vote for a future event center, and that we can always work to improve the plan. So Councilor Jamison will outline the first five items, and I’ll finish with the last five.
Greg
• This Vote is About Funding Priorities – There is NO free lunch – streets, fire stations, parks, libraries, transit OR an Event Center. Whatever we spend on an events center’s principle and interest payment is money that will NOT go to those infrastructure items because the loan payments will come from the same limited source of funding – our second penny sales tax. It’s also concerning that there’s no fund identified to pay for the ongoing maintenance and upkeep of the facility.
• Consider What Cuts You Would Make – If Sioux Falls had built the event center five years ago and today we started making the full loan payments of nine million dollars, we would need to cut some of the very important projects we’re completing this year. We ask you to think about it. As an example – here’s what 9 million dollars accomplished this year.
• 10th & Cliff intersection for 1.8 million dollars
• 41st street overlay for 1 million dollars
• Reconstruction of 57th from Louise to Tea Ellis road for 2.5 million dollars
• And reconstruction of River Boulevard for 3 million dollars
Ask yourself – would you be willing to cut these kinds of items every year to make events center bond payment? Again, there’s no free lunch.
• Construction Costs Are Going up on All Projects – It’s not just the events center price tag that will go up. The cost of all city construction projects are likely to go up. History demonstrates that streets, fire stations, parks, libraries, transit and other capital projects will also cost us more going forward and we have to be prepared for that. So again it comes back to priorities for Sioux Falls. What investments do you want us to make right now.
• No Taxes for Event Center Because We Can’t –
• No new taxes
• No tax increases
• No use of property taxes
This is all true because Sioux Falls, like almost all South Dakota cities, is at the maximum tax level allowed by state law. We can’t raise taxes because it’s against the law. All the money is coming from one source – the 2nd penny sales tax we’ve reserved for streets, fire stations, libraries, transit and other projects.
• We’re Not Replacing the Arena – The Arena stays in play. The events center is an additional building at that complex, but there is no new planned re-use of the existing Arena. We will be competing with ourselves and will have to maintain both venues with taxpayer dollars. Plus, we have identified critical improvements to the Arena, but not identified funding to take care of it.
Vernon
• The Parking Plan Doesn’t Consider Multiple Events – The plan does not consider simultaneous events at this venue. Many of us have experienced congestion there when two events are taking place. Under the proposal, we’ll have a 12,000 seat new event center, the Arena, Howard Wood Field, Pheasant Stadium and the Convention Center all sharing the same parking space.
• How Will Sioux Falls Pay For Population Growth – Experts predict our city will grow at the rate of three-thousand people a year – that’s 8 people a day. That means more houses, streets, fire stations, libraries, parks and other infrastructure will be needed. Much of that is funded out of the second penny sales tax. But the plan is counting on sales tax growth paying for the events center debt for the next 22 years. And don’t forget, we have Master Plans for Falls Park, the River Greenway and the zoo and there’s not enough funding in the Capital Improvement Plan to complete those plans.
• We’re Borrowing 100 Percent of the Money – Construction costs will be 115-million dollars, but we will have to borrow $125 million to cover the issuance cost of bonds. We will be borrowing every dime of it – no down payment. It also means we’ll be paying $60 to $70 million in interest expense.
• We Do Not Have One Tenant Signed – Not one semi-pro athletic team has signed an agreement to use the facility. And if they do, that means the Arena loses rent. Now the primary tenants are identified as big conventions, conferences, and tradeshows. In 2010 these events represented only 16 percent of the event mix of the convention center.
• And here’s the most important point – We Can Create a Better Plan – Please don’t let anyone convince you’re not progressive or not supporting Sioux Falls’ future just because you can’t comfortably say yes to this vote. It’s OK to say you want a better plan.
I will not let anyone cast us as naysayers for pointing out these facts. I have an almost eight year record of quality of life improvements – Lewis & Clark water, flood control along the river, two fire stations, an expanded sewer system to support 23-thousand acres of development, a Renaissance of Falls Park, the River Greenway project, 100 acres of parkland, two branch libraries, an expanded and remodeled Main Library, a new swimming pool, a sports complex, not to mention operation budget items including 24 police officers and 19 firefighters. That is progress we can afford…
November 8th is not your last chance for an event center. If you decide you’re not comfortable with $125 million dollars of debt, we can work together to create a more affordable plan for Sioux Falls so you can comfortably vote YES. Greg and I have worked on three ideas to begin that discussion.
Greg
• We need to create an Arena Replacement Fund. Let’s do this with South Dakota values and set aside money each year to build up to a 10 to 15 percent down payment on our entertainment venue.
• And while we do that, let’s give voters confidence that we can make our other subsidized entertainment venues self sustaining. We’ll work with the Arena, Pavilion, Zoo, Orpheum Theater and Convention Center to acquire naming rights so tax dollars don’t subsidize them. THEN we can prove to voters that we can build a self sustaining event center in Sioux Falls. They deserve that confidence.
• And then once the Pavilion and Convention Center are paid off and self sustaining, the Entertainment Tax could help fund construction of a future events center.
That is the beginning of an alternative plan that can give taxpayers confidence.
Again, we want to thank you for attending. We’re happy to take any questions.
This might be a game-changer to my prediction of this thing passing… Brown & Jamison brought the wood to ol’ Mikey. I guess itll depend on what kinda fireworks Huether breaks out over the final couople weeks.
The only f’ing fireworks he has is calling bloggers ‘liars’.
Unless he gets God’s endorsement, he’s f’ckd.
Brown/Jamison story is already buried on Argus web site. Dug deep and found this comment post that needs to be shared. A little research bears it out:
GnomeSaiyan
5:00 PM on October 27, 2011
One point of interest in regards to that last snippet I posted. That company swindled several mid-sized cities into thinking they would be swimming in excess money from a new events center. “Build it and they will come”. Sound familiar?
Turns out they just manufactured a ton of unrealistic projections. Didn’t really matter to them, they got paid. So did the other consultants, contractors, bond issuers, construction companies, designers, etc. The people that are getting hosed are the many cites that got hoodwinked into a horrible idea.
This company talked the following cities into building a new venue: Rio Rancho, N.M, Independence, MO, Allen, TX, Wenatchee, WA, Cedar Park, TX, Prescott Valley, AZ, Broomfield, CO and several others. Then left them all in a lurch when none of them panned out to be what was projected.
The common thread among the seven listed above is the fact that Sink Combs Detlefs worked on all of them. Remind me again what event center project they’re working on currently? You don’t suppose they would be above fudging numbers and other sorts of underhanded tactics to get a city to approve a project that will pay them substantial amounts of money, do you? Nah, they probably never did that seven times before.
I’m glad at least 2 of the councilors laid it out there. Good for them and I thought they brought up a lot of valid points
Earlier this afternoon there was a pc about this on the home page of the AL………….
Now they’ve buried it so deep, I can’t even find it………..
And, they call this journalism……….??!!!!
Not even close to journalism. I recall a story not long ago when Jodi Schwan was fired by the good mayor. Many of the comments in that story were just flat disgusting. The Argus rightfully buried that story. But this story? WHY did you bury it Argus? You had no reason other than the truth staring you in the eyes. Jonathon Ellis. Never wonder why people like me dumped your subscription. What you chose to do with this story is a perfect example. The Argus is just the opposite of what I expect from a newspaper. WHY did you choose to bury this story?
Here’s why. From the pages of 1984,
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. In this way every prediction made by the Party could be shown by documentary evidence to have been correct; nor was any item of news, or any expression of opinion, which conflicted with the needs of the moment, ever allowed to remain on record. All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary.”
You can take your paper and stick it where the sun don’t shine.
BTW. If you want to find what the Argus buried, go to their home page, find their search engine, and type in… Brown. Then tell me after reading the comments what the argus felt was a need to bury.
I see De Knudson, once again, is using her tired old tactic of calling people ‘negative’ if they have a different truthful opinion then hers;
http://www.argusleader.com/article/20111028/VOICES09/110280309/Letters-New-facility-moves-city-forward
“There always have been pessimistic voices telling us that Sioux Falls cannot afford this or that improvement, and that we should not grow. Those voices have been wrong in the past, and those negative voices are wrong now. We must continue our wonderful tradition of bold action to seize opportunities. Cautious governments abound in South Dakota. We cannot allow the negative voices to stop our progress and growth.”
De, give it up already. You used to spout this crap everytime someone disagreed with you on the council. If someone is spreading the truth about something, I think that is a very POSITIVE thing. Misleading the public in order to get something passed is very NEGATIVE. But you already understand that? Right? If it were up to De she would devote the entire 2nd Penny to entertainment.
This was my favorite Gnome comment;
‘Prepare yourselves for a ****storm. Someone down at city hall will be spending their day kicking babies and punching puppies.’
Question-
What do Greg Jamison, Scott Ehrisman, Vernon Brown, and Jennifer Holsen have in common?
Answer-
From the good mayor-
One of the really sad things about campaigns is in the end, you can make up a bunch of stuff to make people really scared and make them stressed and start to question all the things that are going on.
http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail6162.cfm?Id=122763
Nearly word for word what he told Jeff Harkness the other day on the Sports Buffet. This kind of tactic works great when you’re bullying a cubicle warrior from your fee harvesting days at First Premier, but not so much when you hold down a public job.
I attended last nite’s “Roadshow” facilitated by Tracy Turbeck and Darrin Smith.
My question…..
As of today, do you have any “signed commitments” for private money for this facility?
Response/Turbeck (Director of Finance)….
“We had NO signed commitments for private money at this time, and we will not be releasing information about signed commitments for private money as has been suggested by the public lately.”
Also, once again, I asked the same question that I have been asking for months….
Where will you locate a second ON-SITE hotel at the Arena location to accomodate the increased convention business that you are saying will be the major tenant of the new EC?
They could not answer the question.
that should read…….
“We have NO signed commitments…..
Seems kind of late for something like this. Haven’t people been saying for weeks that peoples minds are made up? It’s like Brown & Jamison just wanted to get something on paper so they could scream “told you so” if this passes and is a train wreck.
JR – I will agree with you on one thing, Vernon is a flip-flopper and sometimes looks foolish. While I agree with many points they made, I do think it is odd they are looking for a down payment now. Huether wanted to do that. I think though he wanted to take it from the reserves? Also, I find it odd that Vernon thinks the EC and CC shouldn’t be subsidized. When he ran against Stehly she said the same thing about our entertainment facilities and he told her they HAVE to be subsidized. So which is it Vernon. It seems sometimes he goes the way the wind blows politically.
I found this comment from Gnome on the AL story interesting:
“GnomeSaiyan
9:22 AM on October 28, 2011
Here’s a point of interest in regards to that article excerpt I just posted. That company swindled several mid-sized cities into thinking they would be swimming in excess money from a new events center. “Build it and they will come”. Sound familiar?
Turns out they just manufactured a ton of unrealistic projections. Didn’t really matter to them, they got paid. So did the other consultants, contractors, bond issuers, construction companies, designers, etc. The people that are getting hosed are the many cites that got hoodwinked into a horrible idea.
This company talked the following cities into building a new venue: Rio Rancho, N.M, Independence, MO, Allen, TX, Wenatchee, WA, Cedar Park, TX, Prescott Valley, AZ, Broomfield, CO and several others. Then left them all in a lurch when none of them panned out to be what was projected.
The common thread among the seven listed above is the fact that Sink Combs Detlefs worked on all of them. Remind me again what event center project they’re working on currently? You don’t suppose they would be above fudging numbers and other sorts of underhanded tactics to get a city to approve a project that will pay them substantial amounts of money, do you? Nah, they probably never did that seven times before.”
From today’s Argus: Councilor Dean Karsky said there is no talk of cutting anything out of the budget. “Money is available to pay for the $9 million a year without projects falling to the ax,” he said.
What Karsky and others like him fail to comprehend is that $200m will pay for a lot of yet-to-be appropriated future projects in the CIP. For example:
1. It will take a lot more than the $1m currently in the CIP to finish the River Greenway. They promise to get it done, but show me the money!
2. All of the asphalt overlays the mayor is using to “fix” our streets will fall apart within 5-7 years max. No money in the CIP to properly replace 41st or Minnesota.
3. Public Works admited to city council a few weeks back that the $40m federal earmark is NOT enough to complete the Railroad Relocation. City tax money, yet to be determined, will be needed.
4. Remember the devastation of Dutch Elm Disease in the 1970’s? The Emerald Ash Borer is about to do the same thing here again. It’s already killing thousands of trees in parks and neighborhoods as close as Iowa and Minnesota. I’m told it may take 10’s of millions of dollars to replace the infected trees in parks and boulevards across Sioux Falls. It’s expected to strike in 3-5 years, if it’s not here already. Total dollars budgeted to do this – $0.
5. What about Highway 100? Like the feds with Sioux River dikes and Lewis & Clark, the state will never come through with the money it promised to finish this project. You want instant commercial and economic development? About $80m would finish this road in a hurry, not to mention all the spinoff construction jobs it will create (sound familiar?).
I could go on. You get my point. Guys like Karsky don’t get it – this EC finance plan simply robs Peter to pay Paul. I won’t even comment on his “computer” analogy, since I’ve never shopped for a $200m computer.
Interesting side note:
The Minneapolis mayor proposed a new tax to cover Target Center renovation and construction of a new Vikings stadium. Annual city contribution (debt service, etc.): $9M. Of course, the debt is likely incurred over a longer period of time, and the State of MN actually chips in now and then for big projects, but still. We’re talking big-city money for a small-time project, all because everybody else (State of SD, private contributors, etc.) can see that this is a project unworthy of investment.
I see Tom.. Yes, that’s why I don’t live in those top 20 sized cities or even top 100 population cities.
I use radio market rankings to measure the marketing impact of a city..
http://www.arbitron.com/home/mm001050.asp
If you live in cities outside of that top 100 it’s less likely you will be suckered into these money laundering schemes and have more control on your money. Our voices are stronger in a city like Sioux Falls and this mayor and part of the council will or should resign in shame.
cornholio………..
Everytime you talk to someone from the Northwest District……I would remind voters of Karsky’s stand on this……he is up for election in April.
Remember he was appointed to his Council seat, not elected……
He is totally the “Chamber’s” man!!
The ‘Chambers’ man? I’m glad you figured it out, half the time I don’t know WTF he is talking about. Him and Tex Golfing should stick to selling insurance.