It has often baffled me that the EC plan never included a parking ramp. Everybody knows that one will eventually have to be built, but it seemed before the EC vote, mums the word.
Well there may be a reason for that. It was crucial to keep the EC numbers low, including a parking ramp would have ballooned those numbers, substantially! I was often suspicious as to why this was never a part of the discussion. Heck, I even brought it up during public testimony at a council meeting. The mayor just smiled at me.
Well, if you smell a rat, there is probably one in close proximity to you.
If you have watched the EC public meetings and the recent West Sioux neighborhood meeting about parking at the EC, the same question has been asked over and over again with little to no answer as to where everyone will be parking at the new EC. Why has the city (mayor) been so reluctant to answer the question? Because they may already have an answer but they were not planning to tell us until after the facility opened.
A reliable city source told me that there may have been an internal meeting held about parking before the EC vote. The topic of discussion; A parking ramp at the EC location. Supposedly during the meeting, a city employee close to the mayor admitted that there is a plan to build a parking ramp at the cost of approximately $45 million next to the EC, but the plan would not be pursued until the doors open. Also discussed was how the city would pay for the ramp. The city employee’s response was ‘bonding’. Not sure if this all took place, but when you consider the blatant state of denial about a parking ramp by the city, one starts to speculate.
Now I know this may alleviate all the concerns people may have about parking at the EC site, but it certainly goes against what we were told (another lie to throw on the EC bomb fire).
If part of the plan is to build a parking ramp, we need to be told before we break ground.
Same parking tactic they used to sell voters on the Washington Pavilion.
And, of course, all of this will happen after the EC opens – which conveniently happens to be after MMM runs for re-election.
Don’t the majority of the politicians lie?
I’ve been of the strong opinion from day one that the parking plan proposed for this is inadequate. It’s supposed to be one parking space for every 4 seats in arenas/stadiums/event centers in traditional zoning districts. The arena site is a planned development and this zoning district (Sioux Falls Plaza PD) was recently amended so that parking wouldn’t be required to follow the 4:1 rule, but instead would be based on a plan approved by the city (don’t be shocked when the plan created by the city is approved by the city). I’m not saying we need an absolute 4:1 ratio because that assumes every single complex is full at once (arena, EC, convention center, baseball stadium, Howard Wood) and that’s just not going to happen (not even close). However, we’re adding 12,000 seats but only something like 700-800 parking spaces to an area that is already full at times when you have Howard Wood and the arena both running events at the same time. Keep in mind many of those parking spaces come with caveats like they are across the street on Sioux Falls School district lots, another private lot, and part of the McCart field lots, all of which aren’t guaranteed to be available/may be in use. I’ve suspected certain people in city government have been well aware of this and as these things slip out I’m more convinced. At the meeting where the zoning rules were changed for this PD, it was stated by Mike Cooper that basically they know they don’t have capacity for multiple events, which is why all of the facilities will have to coordinate schedules so we don’t have multiple events going on at the same time. But wasn’t one of the big points about having a new EC was because some dates at the arena are taken up by sports teams so we have to say no to these great concerts and things and having a new EC will make it more flexible? Now we’re saying because of parking we’ll have to say no to events because Howard Wood or some other venue has something the same day. What are we accomplishing? I’m seeing into the future with my crystal ball, and I see a vision where the EC is under construction or completed (either way past the point of no return) and we’ll be told ‘oh by the way the parking is not going to be adequate’, and that we have to build the ramp now because we’ve got the EC now, so what are we going to do, not provide parking for it? And so we’ll be forced to pay for a enormously expensive ramp with that sunk cost fallacy, and of course it will be claimed its not technically a violation of the 115 million dollar promise. By the way, the sunk cost fallacy might get us over and over the next few years I suspect. I guess the strategy with parking or any other aspect of the EC proposal that is inconvenient is to deny its a problem, at least until we’re so far along you can claim you have no choice but to approve the extra expenditure.
I suspect this parking ramp story, when it is let to the people of Sioux Falls, will completely surprise about 58% of the voters of this town. The same 58% who bought in hook, line, and sinker to the valley girls gushing about a justin bieber concert in Omaha.
45 million does seem a little steep tho. Modern parking ramps cost anywhere from $17,000 to $20,000 per parking space. Somehow the numbers just don’t add up.
Would agree, I would put a major ramp in the $15 million range. I got the feeling though that the mentioned city employee was ‘kinda joking’ about the proposal. In other words, ‘We all know we will eventually need a parking ramp at the EC site, we just are not going to talk about it until after the facility is built – wink and nod.’ In other words you would be hard pressed to probably find one single city document discussing a future ramp. It is off the table and not part of the discussion.
That sounds about right. I’m sure there isn’t any concrete plan or vast conspiracy. Rather, as l3wis said there is just a recognition (although won’t be stated publicly) that the parking plan is not going to be adequate, and we all know it will have to be corrected later. So while no one is probably technically ‘lying’ and there is nothing on the table now, it is dishonest. The problem as stated before is that once this thing is built, the argument will be we have to build one now because we have to provide parking. And what will be our choice? By the way I have no problem in theory with a ramp, I’d probably prefer it to a sea of asphalt, but its just another large cost that they couldn’t include and hit this purely arbitrary number.
Well, isn’t it the fucking elephant in the room? C’mon? We will need a parking ramp there. Maybe not on day one, but on at least day 730! I find the whole thing being an office joke more frustrating then anything. There is the arrogance about suckering SF voters into building an EC. But hey, when you have the former marketing director from THE MOST predatory credit card in the nation, what do you expect?
Great article on the foolishness of ‘entertainment districts’ which are completely empty 95% of the time.
http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2012/2/22/it-should-be-about-people.html
Kinda reminds me of the failure of Roman society. The greatest democracy on earth crushed by their infatuation with sporting events.
I attended 13 months of the 2009 EC Task Force meetings. They discussed (extensively) the possibility of a parking ramp at the Arena site. At that time they were talking about $17,000-18000 per stall for a total price tag of approx $23 million. They took the option off the table as too expensive and then turned their sights on relocating Howard Wood.
The 2009 Task Force also discussed a pedestrian walkway over either Russell or West Avenues. They threw both of these options out as too expensive ($7-8 million).
JUST ELEVEN DAYS after the EC vote, Mike announced at his listening and learning session on November 19, 2011 that the city was already in the planning phase for a new “viaduct” (pedestrian walkway) over Russell Avenue.
Of course, the cost of the Russell Avenue viaduct was NOT included in the $115 million voted on by the public………………TALK ABOUT DECEPTION!!!!!!!
CR, you are correct, it WAS discussed at length. I guess what I meant was it was never discussed in the final presentations, etc., the ultimate information given to the voters. There is a lot of this coming from the Huether administration, ‘backroom’ plans and what is ultimately told to the public. Like I have said previously, that is how it works in the credit card corporate world, not only did I work as a graphic designer for one of these companies, but I have done freelance work for major CC companies thru brokers. They will always tell you the benefits of something w/o telling you the cost, in the initial contact, the small print wakes you up to reality.
Thank goodness there will be so many transportation options for getting to the new EC! Think of the parking problems we’d have if everyone had to drive to get there!
TOM, maybe it is not to late to get my magic carpet business going.
Sorry l3wis. I gotta vent…off topic no less. This morning I stopped at Hy-Vee on 49th & Louise for coffee and breakfast. When I went in the door gas was $3.35 a gallon. I stayed in the store for about an hour, Watched the snow start to fall, paid my bill and was told gas was 12 cents off if I issue the receipt she handed me. Problem is, in that one hour, gas went from $3.35 a gallon to $3.55 a gallon. The store was much busier than usual, in anticipation of the snowstorm I guess. This to me was nothing more than pure and simple price gouging at the pump. For the last few years I’ve seen it happen quite a bit. Yet…our reps can do nothing about it??? BULLSHIT. Vote em all out.
BTW. I gassed up at Flyin J on the way back home where gas was $3.39…same as it was yesterday.
FUCK YOU HY-VEE.
Well, Poly, I don’t mean to be a dick, but this has been going on for years. Why is gas more expensive over holidays and summer vacation . . . .
Ah, the good old days, when the gas station proprietor had to grab a long pole with a hook on the end to change the numbers on the display, rather than just punch a few buttons off his desk. They didn’t jack ’em up several times a day then, by Golly…
Well, Poly, I don’t mean to be a dick, but this has been going on for years. Why is gas more expensive over holidays and summer vacation . . . .
Well, l3wis, I know, and you know, and everyone else knows it
Well, Poly, I don’t mean to be a dick, but this has been going on for years. Why is gas more expensive over holidays and summer vacation . . . .
Well l3wis, I know, you know, and everyone else knows this has been going on for years, but thune , Johnson, and kristi look the other way. I say vote the dicks out. And when the next reps do the same, vote there worthless butts out. Til we do that, nothin we do or say means squat.
I’m glad that I have a couple flex fuel vehicles. E-85 holding at $2.79.
Taco, I used to have a flex fuel. Have you figured your breaking point on e-85 due to the reduced mileage? At 2.79 it would have been more economical for my old vehicle to run 10 %. Yours is probably different.
I won’t use E-85 unless it’s at least 60 cents a gallon cheaper. So I haven’t used it in awhile. But we crossed the threshold this week, and it looks like we’ll be stuck there for quite awhile.
Poly – It will take more then voting out a couple of clowns out of office, it will take a national overhaul of our energy policy in America.
The economist fellow who spoke at the Augie thought leader forum Friday said either there will be a radical economic policy change (policy revolution) – or there will be a an actual violent physical revolution. That part of his speech, of course, wasn’t publised in the AL article on Sat.
I have often felt that law enforcement will force the 99%ers to get ‘physical’. And hey, if it brings sweeping change, I’m all for it. Change doesn’t come easily. Ask General Washington how many times his ass had to be kicked before he returned the favor.