Yet it is perfectly legal to force people to have car insurance . . . hmmm.
According to Jackley the Supreme Court upheld the individual insurance requirement because it declared that the penalty for not having coverage by the deadline in 2014 can be collected as a tax.
Jackley says it violates individual and state constitutional rights and puts a burden on small businesses. He says they might not be able to offer the same type of coverage for families.
So forcing me to insure my car is constitutional? Give me a break. While I have mixed feelings on forcing people to get health insurance (It is just a bailout for the insurance companies) I am opposed to the healthcare bill for other reasons. I think if you cannot afford private insurance the government should insure you through medicare with a payroll deduction. I think taking out the single-payer option was the worst thing for this bill. It gave the insurance companies what they wanted, a monopoly.
There’s no federal requirement that you buy car insurance. There’s also no state requirement to buy car insurance. You only have to buy car insurance if you want to drive on public roads.
If you own a hundred acres, you can drive all over that hundred acres in your pickup without ever buying car insurance. With Obamacare you are legally required to buy health insurance, even if you never leave your property and never go to the hospital.
There’s a huge difference between state car insurance requirements and Obamacare’s federal health insurance mandate.
DDCSDxyz m i c k e y m o u s e.
The founding fathers made it a federal requirement that all able bodied men be part of the regulated militia. “Regulated” meant that men showed up when called from time to time, provided their own weapons, hatchet, knife, ball, powder, wadding, powder, flint, ramrod, etc., would be trained and practice drill, and would respond to emergencies to the community. If one failed to report with a weapon, fines or punishment ensued, and at the very least the malingerer would be provided with a 16th century pike (a 8-10 foot long stick with a pointed end).
What’s absent in the modern hoorah-for-me-screw-you republican party – a sense of community; or to turn the biblical teaching, doing unto others.
I’m surprised the Repubs aren’t all for this since their friends in the insurance industry are going to get even richer.
John,
Ever read the Constitution?
Here’s a little excerpt from Article I Section 8 regarding the powers of Congress:
“To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years”
Raising an army is a clearly defined responsibility of Congress. While I absolutely oppose any kind of draft or conscription, it’s at least based on an enumerated power.
I can’t speak to your critiques of the Republican party and their adherence to the teachings of a nearly two thousand year old work of fiction (I don’t consider myself to be a Republican) , but I will say that I don’t see how controlling your fellow citizens adds to anyone’s “sense of community”.
But hey, keep celebrating this expansion of federal power. Just keep your mouth shut when idiots like McConnell and Boehner wield it for moronic Republican ideas.
As if the medical industry has actually been part of the free market system for the last half century.
An army is not the regulated militia. The regulated militia is not the army. Yes, sport, I read the US Constitution many, many times; have mastered graduate-level classes on it and portions of it; swore my honor to uphold it; wore a uniform and ostensibly fought a war and police action to so do.
Understanding the meaning of “well regulated militia” must occur in the context of the founders. Perhaps you recall that General Washington and his generals always preferred having regulator troops than the fleeting, flighty militia – yet even an oft unreliable ally was better than no ally. Contrary the Lobsterbacks always preferred to fight the militia for good reason.
You, good sir, like most Americans, have long forgotten this history. Here’s a start. Consider both the American experience in the French and Indian War, life before, during, and immediately after the Revolutionary War, and the text of the militia act of 1792.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Also consider the militia act or 1913 which remains in effect, creating 2 militias – the organized militia which became the national guard, and the unorganized militia which is the rest of us able-bodied souls:
My bad. Shooting from memory instead of confirming. The Militia Act of 1903 is what I meant to type, with its amendment of 1908.
Here’s the Cliff Notes version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_%28United_States%29
Whenever Republicans lose a political battle they immediately turn it into an emotional debate. Their classical approach is to use gun control as an emotional coded outcry. Conservative bloggers are doing it on this website right now and they did it earlier today when they forced a bogus contempt charge against Atty. General Holder by turning the Fast and Furious inquiry into a debate over gun control…. Get your gun Annie” is the battle cry of the right and its GOP patsies.
What a dumbass comparison. You will have to buy insurance just to be a US citizen. There is millions of folks who don’t drive and don’t need car insurance, but they will be required to buy health insurance. Everyone I speak to who believes in this healthcare bill/screwjob will eventually lead to free for all healthcare. What the hell in life is free you f$@#in freeloaders.
John… Folks like you sure like to clip the facts down to what fits your needs… I give 5% of my pay and 5% of my time to 6 different local charities. Don’t you lecture me on the bible. Handouts and handups are 2 different things and it’s too bad your parents couldn’t teach leaches like you the difference.
Get a job or 2 people, because we all have a lot of welfare minded folks like John to keep on the couch allday.
The part that bothers me tremendously is that they can now impose a tax on you for NOT purchasing health insurance. For the first time the government can compel you to either buy something or pay a tax MERELY FOR EXISTING.
This idea is a significant departure from any form of taxation we’ve ever had. Until now every tax that the US imposes requires some kind of opt-in: to pay income tax you have to have income (and can deduct parts of it), to pay sales tax you have to purchase goods, to pay property tax you have to own real estate (or in some states an automobile), etc. You have control over all of these kinds of purchases. Believe it or not go to some of the larger cities (NY, Chicago, Boston, etc.) and people DON’T OWN CARS. With this tax you can now be taxed for being alive and short of hanging myself I don’t have control over that. And the only things we tax for merely existing… are PROPERTY! With changes like this human beings now become legally closer to chattel. 150 yrs ago you could OWN PEOPLE in this country – either as slaves or indentures servants. And we had debtor’s prisons.
Now here’s an ironic twist – corporations now have the same rights as people. And people now can be taxed like a piece of property. That is no good.
JLJ, I think you left out a few insults and mindless generalities, but I hope you feel better now. Meanwhile, I aspire some day to be as superior as you.
In the meantime, my clients, who are disabled, live in group homes, and cannot work, will be hitting the streets selling pencils and apples. I hope you will charitably buy a few. A little charity ought to be all those folks need to survive.
Those retarded people, the ones with severe autism, the guys born of alcoholic parents, the ones brain injured due to an accident caused by a drunken driver – those people. Well I’ll just tell them to get a job or two. No problem.
While you are clearly eager to go after the people taking advantage of government assistance, it’s people like my clients who will suffer because they are not capable of gaming the system.
You dumbass.
Everyone in the US uses the commons. The commons are :
the air (do you breathe?)
water (do you wash, drink, swim?)
mountains (look at them, parks)
public lands (city parks, etc)
highways (do you walk across them
sidewalks (do you walk on them)
hospitals (emergency rooms, medical research)
There are so many more areas to cover to be considered part of the commons. We all must pay for the commons and to be concerned for each other. The founding fathers going back to the Washington administration were concerned about the cost of serving the health needs of the citizens. Public health is part of the commons.
Libertarian greed is not part of the commons. Corporate greed is not part of the commons. TeaBagger greed and ignorance is not part of the commons. Narrow mined greed is not good for our country.
The more people included in the American Dream allows the corporatists to make more money while allowing the lessors amongst us to live better lives.
We have to face facts in this country, the need for all people to receive health care is a right to life. it is in the US Constitution if you open your mind and actually read the document. We the people are owners of this government and commons. Why do we cede the profits and ownership to a select few (the 1%) with us never having a chance to have a decent life. The select few do not want you to live past your usefulness. Once you start costing the system, you are worthless and Sarah Palin’s death panels will make sure you die.
To succeed in this experiment called the USA, we must support the masses (99%) through the common method. Our SCOTUS today declared today we must support he masses through tax policy. I say OK, not happy about it but there it is. We all have work to do to correct many aspects of it current law but we will for good and bad.
So hate the bill all you want, suck it up and work to make it fair to all of us now. They could not mandate it but the Congress could write a taxation policy to make us have Health Insurance. Now we have to figure out a way to correct of the greed based insurance companies, drug companies, hospital corporations (private and public) and the rest of the bloated system.
Hi DE! You go girl!
What amazes me is how so many of the conservatives talk about all the “Welfare Queens” and scammers, when in reality there a are the few bad apples is the whole basket.
They forget about HOW MANY are really deserving, needy people would be selling pencils on the street corner.
What are they going to do with all the additonal homeless and sick if all the programs are cut? (Do you suppose Michelle Bachman would take them all in?) Will all the good Bible thumpers open up their homes or their wallets to take up the slack? I think I just read that only 11% of charity comes from churches. That is not a drop in the bucket.
Then, let’s think about the administrative people, socialworkers, caregivers, the nursinghomes staff, treatment centers staff….and on and on. They will be out in the street, as they will have no jobs. How many in those service industries will be out of work?
It is the trickle down effect alright! So many of the right has forgotten how to think for themselves and just spew words out of the Republican handbook.
I will reiterate, I don’t think ‘able bodied’ Americans that are working should get free healthcare, all I am saying is that it should be as simple as a payroll deduction. And they shouldn’t be dropped, etc, for no reason. I have never advocated a handout, just fair and affordable healthcare. As for people who cannot take care of themselves, put yourself in their shoes . . . think about that for awhile.
PL and DE, the trickle down effect will hit the pocketbooks of the 1% when the 99% can no longer afford to live in their precious society. When the 99% can no longer afford it live here who will they be able to abuse, oh yea the lessor 1%. They will eat their own and we will be watching…
Thanks Testor and DE. Evidently the facts showing that our nation’s founders had no problem making citizens pay for something, just for being a citizen, whether they used it or not (the security it induced) flies in the face of the self-righteous right wing-nuts here.
The nation’s founder’s militia law of 1792 read: ‘It conscripted every “free able-bodied white male citizen” between the ages of 18 and 45 into a local militia company overseen by the state. Militia members were to arm themselves with a musket, bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a cartridge box with 24 bullets, and a knapsack. Men owning rifles were required to provide a powder horn, 1/4 pound of gun powder, 20 rifle balls, a shooting pouch, and a knapsack.’ It was enforced by: ‘Court martial proceedings were authorized by the statute against militia members who disobeyed orders.’ So not only were able bodied men conscripted, but they had to also furnish and supply their own weapons – a steep mandate or tax by any definition. Paying for health insurance is Tiddlywinks in contrast.
Making able-bodied pay for health insurance is certainly less egregious than making citizens show up for service, provide their own weapons, and be subject to death in defense of the community, or court martial for disobedience. The only problem with the health care law is it didn’t go far enough and should and will eventually become single-payer or Medicare for all – if for no other reason than to make our companies and industries more competitive in the global economy.
Irony: many of the ones negatively howling about the Affordable Health Care Act being passed (which ultimately means lives being saved) most likely view themselves as “Pro Life”. In other words, once outta the womb “you’re on your own. Tough bananas if you are poor.”
Tough Bananas? Isn’t that Ron Paul’s campaign slogan;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igQlbesF0zA
Jackilope, the added irony is how the right to lifers and abusers of the system will be the ones crying later in life for more medicare / medicaid to sustain their lives.
Bottomfeeders. I used to think these were foodstamp recipients and the elderly poor, when in reality, it’s business owners asking for TIF’s and millions in facades along the river. We get mad because lil’ johnny’s mom is on welfare and she smokes reefer, so why should he get a free school lunch? While millionaire developers get free landscaping? The next time you bitch about the poor give equal time to the developers.
Jello Biafro might have been on to something;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euqf_UKFtgY
This video of Jello is fantastic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_SiOnt_Oxo&feature=related
John,
Thank you for falling into my trap. Since you are a Constitutional scholar, you sure must know the next three lines of Article I, Section 8 that pertain specifically to the militia.
While we’re at it, you can drop the whole “wore the uniform” thing when when talking to me. I wore it as well and have the “conflict” medals to go along with it. It really doesn’t pertain to this issue, so you can stop using it as a crutch to gain an advantage in this debate.
If you own a hundred acres, you can drive all over that hundred acres in your pickup without ever buying car insurance. This because you’ll never run into my truck. If you drive on public roads you need insurance.
Health insurance is not the same. If you pass out on your private land, someone finds you, calls 911, and you get lifted to the hospital. You have no insurance so the people that do have insurance pay more because of people like you.
D.E. Bishop,
Now, read this a few time before typing the diluted retort that your online ego is boiling.
You are a definable part of the problem as well. As you deal with the people that truly need help you chose to ignore the folks that are stealing funds from the peolple who truly need it the most. But your even worse, you use the struggle of our most delicate souls to further your pathetic political views on welfare for all. If you notice I mentioned nothing of the charities or special people I help, but you (being a precious little snow flake) you immediately used the ailments of the people which you make a living from to spew your hate and a misguided political agenda.
It’s clear you don’t understand that more folks taking unearned medicare benefits from our states small medicare budget (which this law will do) will hurt the people who truly need this money. You know, the people you make a living from. It’s clear, you don’t understand the bigger issues. Stick to John Stewart for your news.
Now for the further meant of the discussion to the rest. How about we go back to a simpler system. A system where you paid for what you need. When THE Gov. got in the business of directing healthcare cost (20 years ago) that’s when cost starting rising. At that time THE GOV decided rather than researching and prosecuting the healthcare providers and recipients who were bilking the system THE GOV price fixed the reimbursement to recipents to drive down the costs. So much like shoplifters those who steal drive up the cost for the rest. THE GOV started the problem, made it worse, and now will make it a lot worse. When is the last time you seen THE GOV prosecute undeserving benefits thieves…NEVER… We need to keep helping for those who can’t help themselves and make examples of those you are screwing our good natured society. This will make hethcare affordable again.
No matter who won the debate in the court or on this blog nothing will be fixed until accountability is enforced on all.
Romneycare is now the law of the land. The senate’s filibuster means it will never be repealed regardless of election results this November. The sore losers here and in Pierre need to get over it and move on and stop living in the past.
As I read these blog post comments I am amazed at how ignorant so many local people are when it comes to the healthcare debate the nation is experiencing.
Johnny Roastbeef is says it correctly. Do we leave the person in the field to die or do we follow the teachings many of us grew up with to help the injured? Do we do the Ron Paul philosophy and let them die if they don’t have the right kind of insurance?
Libertarian, back to God crowd in Colorado Springs is now crying for help due to the fires surrounding their town. They did not want to pay property taxes. Taxes required to pay for fire protection, water systems, police protection and other ‘social’ services. No their town is in danger. Why should I care? Why should we care? Why should my tax dollars or charity or sympathy be wasted on them. If they follow the RP programs, they should have planned ahead for this eventuality. He and the city should just die as the crowd was yelling in Iowas this year.
Do I care about the destruction? Yes. Do I wish there was a functioning FEMA? Yes. How many of these people will not have insurance after this disaster? Many. Should there be an insurance program for them or do we let them die? What about the babies these right to lifers force women to produce? Where do they get the funds to pay for these deliveries and insurance to care for them? The organized baby selling businesses masquerading as right to life organizations? What method of insurance are they offering to these mothers and babies?
This issue is very close to me, I am dealing with multiple versions of this everyday. I do not like Obamacare but we have to start somewhere and fight to make it better. I am in the school of let’s fight to make it better.
Testor is my new hero.
LOL, Thx
For all you “constitutional scholars”out there, here’s a general synopsis, using ONLY the words of the constitution to describe the Court’s ruling:
We the people, in order to…..provide for the general welfare…..shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises……make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution…….”
IF you are truly constitutional scholars, you understand that no single word or clause of the constitution takes precedence or has more or less power to any other single word or clause. If you take this document and string together any of its disparate parts, into a single structure – it stands.
PS – the PAUL family (and the supporting Paulists) are dolts.
PS – Duagaard’s reaction to this seems to exemplify and approach that could be charaterized as ” governance by wishful thinking”.
There doesn’t seem to be a lot of brain cells in Pierre at the moment. Thank Gawd they hired Debra Owen!
JLJ, I’m glad your obviously well-earned superiority is still in tact. Other than that, I’ll leave the insulting idiocy to you, because you do it so much better than anyone else here. Have fun with yourself.
In the meantime, Testor is my hero too!
It’s pretty hard to plan for the future when you are dreaming of a wishful past that never was.
I don’t need car insurance or health insurance. I choose not to be in a car accident, just as I choose not to get sick or die.
The present healthcare system doesn’t work. Obamacare is necessary change. The system will become refined. Evolution that would not have started without Obama policy. It’s like road repair; by the time you finish, there’s overcapacity and new construction for widening. The mandatory insurance issue will resolve itself. People will go without just like 33% go without car insurance. You don’t go to jail for not paying car insurance.
It’s simple, wait till you’re sick then start paying insurance. Not a good business model for insurance companies who must give you insurance at fair rates.
Pathloss is right, you have to start somewhere even if it not from the place you wanted to. I do not like this version of healthcare coverage it is a step in the right direction. We have to stay vigilant and keep in on a track of fairness to us the users.
I am right now trying to get a new insurance policy. I buy my own health insurance. A premium increase just arrived 10 days ago giving me another 10% increase. In the last 8 years my health insurance just for me has increase 283% for fewer policy provisions.
At what point is enough enough? We have hospital systems and drug companies gouging us at every point, with their fancy buildings and PR campaigns. Buying fancy Stormland weather systems. Building fancy sports complexes so more kids and adults will required their ortho services. A $90 million cancer building to compete with the other hospital with substandard results due to no extra money left for patient care.
The PR campaigns to fight healthcare reform are killing us mentally and physically. We need single payer as our long term goal with the ability to buy addon policies for non-life threatening procedures. We need to rise up against the hospital-insurance industry who pay their CEOs with lavish salaries and perks without them even having any skin in the game.
Why should we have to subsidize Becky & Kelby’s lavish lifestyles and then listen to their paid PR teams extoll all the wonderfulness.
I have been dealing with amazing, caring doctors and caregivers in the Sioux Falls medical community a lot over the last few years. Confidentially two weeks ago, many of them told me the only hope they have to save the system is a Medicare style single payer system. The doctors were prohibited from giving one of my family members a critically needed procedure due to a new GOP / Blue Dog ruling which took effect last July 1. We were told to take our family member home with a broken back. It was disgusting. A cubical bound staffer in Washington state tells our doctors they can’t do the procedure and if they found out it was done, there could be a $300,000 fine against the offending doctor and hospital.
I may share more of this battle later, so many things have happened now to the family in this short time. The cascading effect of a simple injury to a very active, strong person to life threatening in a matter of hours. All repercussions due to the greed of the healthcare bureaucracy we have allowed to grow and destroy us.