Update: Is Mayor Mike trying to ‘Huether’ in a couple of new Walmarts?

1. Agenda for this Tuesday’s 7:00pm Council Meeting:

   Item #35

   ANNEXATION of West 85th Street and South Minnesota Avenue — SOUTHWEST CORNER

   A traffic signal controlled intersection at W. 85th St. and S. Audie Ave. will provide access to the development.

   W. 85th St. is a two-lane paved limited access arterial street with the other two-lane improvements not within the current CIP.

   The proposed access onto S. Minnesota Ave. does not meet the SD 100 access plan.

2. I wonder how many of the people not wanting a WalMart in their neighborhoods, are in favor of having an indoor pool in Spellerberg Park. It is the same difference. The people in that neighborhood don’t want the indoor pool because of traffic congestion.

3. Well Joan… every neighborhood has it’s reason and right to protest. But it will be just like the first version of a south side Walmart. The middle city folk will call the southsiders snobs and use words like NIMBY. They’ll uuter slurs like “if it were a Macy’s”.
   One HUGE difference is you will not see a camouflage pickup with a billboard in the back smearing the honor of veterans for a cause on the south side.

   If the VA wants/needs that park back for their operations, they will get it. i will stand on the city hall steps to make sure it happens. The VA has never said that this is the case. I have stated many times the city needs to stay the hell out of providing services that a government is not meant to fund.

   Don’t want a pool in your neighborhood OK. It’s your neighborhood and earned the right to a fair say in the matter. I will defend your right to do so. With that said: whomever is parking that truck with that billboard in the back and/or claiming vets will be mistreated because of a pool/park, is a piece of shit.

   With regards to Mikey and Walmarts, it’s the south side that paid for his election and it will be the south side who pay for his removal.

   Bowing out of a city race to loose to a statewide race is the only way to save a little face now for you Mayor Backswing. Park yourself on the PU board and chalk this 4 years up to “I only intended for 1 term” and no one will remember your Huethering mistakes.

4. There are 7,000 (petition signing) people living in the Spellerberg “neighborhood” now?

   Nah – didn’t think so. There are, however, apparently 7,000 people living in the city that will sign a petition to stop ANYTHING from happening ANYWHERE in the city.

5. 85th & Minnesota is tagged for retail development in all future plans written by the city. So it is logical that someone from the city offered the idea to Walmart at some point.

   With a divided 4 lane highway running through 85th/Minn, it is only logical to place a big box store there. With much more retail development to come. Just like the east side.

   Soo Sports has already moved to that intersection. Nobody seemed to object to that and you know what a nasty crowd fishermen and campers are :>}

6. Walmart will get built there – and those fighting against it will have to explain to me how they feel a major intersection like Minnesota and 85th is not well suited for a retail store.

   I used to live a few blocks from there and I can’t imagine someone not understanding that eventually there would be retail and/or commercial on that property. It is simply common sense – and those who will fight against this are going to have to explain why they feel this isn’t a good location. As OSF said, nobody seemed to utter a peep about Soo Sports coming in – and in terms of zoning they are the same as any retail store even if they are much smaller than your typical Wallyworld.

   I just have to say I’m getting a little tired of people who fail to do their homework when buying homes and only after they realize an area is perfectly suited for retail do they wake up and start complaining about it. If I build next to a railroad I need to expect train horns. If I build next to a swamp I need to expect mosquitoes, and if I build my home next to a major road zoned for commercial/retail I need to expect major traffic and a commercial/retail structure.

   I will readily admit I’m not a fan of Walmart, and I’ll readily admit there is a very high probability that I’ll never set foot in this store if/when it is built, but legally they are well within their rights to build it there, and obviously the demand for Walmart exists, so it is going to happen like it or not. If people wish to work with Walmart to improve lighting plans and landscaping in some effort to prevent noise and light pollution, and if they want to work with Walmart and the city on access roads and signal lights and crosswalks in order to improve access, traffic, and safety then by all means do so – but if people want to fight against the entire idea of a retail store being built on land perfectly designed to hold a retail store… well in my opinion they are being rather selfish and petty.

   So yea – it will pretty much be a group of vocal NIMBYs who act as if they represent the entire area or perhaps even the entire city all the while they are more than happy to shop at Walmart provided they can’t see it from their driveway.

   All that said – the real winners here are the owners of Soo Sports. Talk about the jackpot – the increased visibility they are going to get from having a Walmart across the street is going to pay off in spades. They might lose a few bucks on lifejacket sales, but they should more than make up for it with impulse boat and watercraft sales from men who drive Ram trucks with plastic truck nuts hanging from the rear bumper.

7. Cross check the lists and I’d bet you have 75% of the signees against Spellerberg and also on the pro-Snowgates petition.

   And Ruf’s right, most of those folks don’t live in the neighborhood and won’t ever set foot in an indoor pool no matter where it is. They are simply a walking incarntion of cheap, which ironically puts them dead center in the Wal-mart target demographic.

8. On behalf of those of us that live in this neighborhood – please move the truck and put it IN FRONT of your home. The rest of us – regrdless of the message – are tired of looking at it.

   I do want the pool in this neighborhood – of which I will also reserve my right to say so fairly. Remember – the handful of neighbors in this area that are voicing their opinion are the ones that oppose this project. There are MANY that see this project as an asset to the neighborhood, its residents, and its property values. Quite honestly – I haven’t found anyone under the age of 65 that isn’t for this project.

   I think about this project every day and notice that every day after 4pm and the weekends when this facility would be the most busy – the VA hospital is not active. There is very little VA traffic, patients, or parking issues. It’s funny that when the sledding hill is slammed with kids and families – nobody complains or reports traffic problems. Families are parking on the street and all over the VA parking lots and never do you see VA security or police doing anything about it.

   If people are concerned about the cost and want to see private dollars as part of the financing of this project – I get it, but the rest of this stuff is so far-fetched that we are creating not only a community of people that do not trust our Mayor, we are creating a community of people that are sick and tired of the Naysayers – and now we have both of them working against eachother in such a negative way – properly done petitions do not even get a vote for people anymore. It’s a sad state of affairs.

9. The agenda for Wednesday’s Planning Commission meeting is up online. It shows a preliminary plan for this development (85th & Minnesota), showing a “high incompatibility” (the highest designation) with surrounding land use. The planning commission still recommends approving the plans.

   The wording in the zoning ordinance specifically states that “In general, proposed districts with this level of
   conflict should not be permitted” unless all “external effects are fully mitigated.” Does anyone think this is the case?

10. And Ruf’s right, most of those folks don’t live in the neighborhood and won’t ever set foot in an indoor pool no matter where it is.

    Most folks won’t set foot in the place because they won’t be able to afford the entrance fee. And even if they could, Joe Sixpack will only get in on those days private swim clubs don’t have it sewn up.

11. The big, meta-issue here is that we don’t believe in neighborhood evolution anymore. In the past, neighborhoods could start out quiet and sleepy, and then slowly grow into more mature neighborhoods – single family homes into duplexes, then rowhouses, then apartments, then apartments above shops. It was never drastic or sudden, but a slow, incremental process that was always a complete thing at every step along the way.

    Nowadays, we want our neighborhoods to be in finished form right from the get-go. Those single-family neighborhoods are never planned to be anything but that, and that retail corner isn’t going to slowly grow up – it’s going from a farm field to a Walmart.

    Neighborhoods need to grow and mature, like they did before our zoning extravaganza began after WW2. The neighborhoods you see developed before that were always maturing and growing, but they too have been frozen in time since about the ’50s.

    Here’s a good discussion about the topic.

12. “Cross check the lists and I’d bet you have 75% of the signees against Spellerberg and also on the pro-Snowgates petition.”

    Actually I’d disagree with that primarily because the majority of those who signed were most likely heading in to the Minnehaha County Administration building. I signed the Snowgate petition because I was walking in to the building during the time they were collecting signatures – because that just happened to coincide with when I needed to pay registration on a vehicle.

    I didn’t sign a Spellerberg petition for the exact opposite reason – I had no reason to be at the Minn. Admin building and thus never saw anyone asking for signatures.

    The sheer speed at which these signatures were collected suggests to me that there is a very large portion of the population that doesn’t think this is a great idea, and I won’t even begin to insult thousands and thousands of Sioux Falls voters by suggesting they are all simply “cheap” or that I have any idea what their motivation might actually be.

13. It is funny how you can’t clean a ditch out in the farmland around the proposed Wal-Mart at 85th and Minn. to fix drainage issues, but you (Wal-Mart/City of Sioux Falls) can develop an area and push all the water South into farmland and homes, it is these residents that will bear the brunt of the new drainage issues. Also I love how people say that the traffic congestion won’t be an issue, those people obviously don’t live out in that area, there is quite a bit of traffic already with little infrastructure to handle it. There are more than a hand full of reason not to build it at the proposed location and not all of them are NIMBY reasons. I get the general sense that most people feel like that the people who are against the proposed Wal-Mart are just wealthy citizens who built homes out in a cornfield and never thought about what would grow up around them. While some of that might be true, there are others of us who have lived in this area for a half a century or more and feel like this might not be the best type of development in this area either. There is also the perception that all this land around the proposed Wal-Mart is up for grabs or for sale and ripe for development, this is hardly the case, most of the families that own land around or just South of the proposed Wal-Mart don’t have any intentions of selling out and some will fight tooth and nail to keep their property out of the hands of developers. I think most of these people can and will out last Mr. Huether.

14. Previously, I heard Jeff Schmidt, Planning and Building Services, talk about how difficult it had been to get someone to develop the southwest corner of 85th and Minnesota because of the water issues in that area.

    I believe it was on Channel 16/Citylink on a program called Planning Preview.

15. Justin – already haven’t outlasted this: http://www.sddot.com/transportation/highways/planning/specialstudies/sd100/default.aspx

16. Yep 2030 is the last date for completion that was talked about at the meeting on it, rufusx, but thanks for information. I really can’t stand that people who never, or at least not for several generations, have had a connection to any piece of land bigger than their backyard get off on expansion and pointing out how it is inevitable. By the time the corridor is completed, maybe Sioux Falls will have bounced backed from its current mayors spending spree.

17. Justin – I understand where you are coming from. Drainage seems to be the last of the worries. Our drainage changed considerably on the east side. I had a flowing creek that is now dry. And I know the people down by Shindler are feeling the effects of much of the expansion from our area and the 57th street area.

    But the development is inevitable. One just gets squeezed out. Look at the “development” around McKennan and Sanford. You either sell or you have “development” in your backyard. The state will “take” the land they need for the highway, there is no doubt about that. The loop will come. It is good for the city and area. Don’t believe the meetings you go to. Ask my neighbors.

18. The thing that chaps my hide is all this ‘development’ out and out and out. The core of our city could use improvement. And I am not talking swanky condos.

19. Lewis – Point taken – Unfortunately most of our urban centers are still in the sprawl stage of development. I was in Denver this weekend and they are also developing/expanding the core like SF is, but the expansion is very slow. AND the expansion is also “swanky” townhomes. My son lives on the “edge” of this development. Expensive townhomes on one side and old, rundown housing to the other side. How does one correct that?

20. Since the Walmart land is in Lincoln county, is there anything the county can do to stop the city from annexing the land?

21. Detroit and Scott- Since I don’t live in Sioux Falls, I rarely feel like I can talk about what goes on in the city proper, but some parts of the city are a shit hole and could be improved upon, cleaned up, developed, and leave the city in much better place than it currently is. However, the thought most of the time seems to be why fix up what we have when we can just go and build something new, it is disposable consumerism on a grand scale. The city has always done a poor job of planing for business and industry, this is why 41st and Minnesota Ave. look like tacky versions of the Vegas Strip.
    The thought in Harrisburg, at least with the people who have a vested interest in the community, is that they would rather have some more local development in Harrisburg and that the Walmart will push back retail development here at least 10 years, no local or small regional business want to try and compete with Walmart. This hurts the community, Harrisburg is nothing more than a bedroom for most of its residents, and by stunting local business growth it will continue to be just that. I get feeling that as far as Lincoln County is concerned, the City of Sioux Falls gets their way, prime example is when Sioux Falls took over the “Golden Triangle” from the Harrisburg School District. Although one of the Lincoln County Commissioners lives about two miles from the proposed site and I hope he likes water in his basement. While it might sound like I am against progress, this is far from the case. I love when a city improves on what it has, like the resurgence in the Downtown Area, but building something with out little thought because one can isn’t the way to go about it. Especially when one of the main reasons to build it, a far as a certain public servant is concerned, is to boost ones ego and “job” creating record.

22. I am kind of with the guy that stated something along the lines of – if you live out there, did you not think at some point there would be retail, expanded roads, etc heading towards Harrisburg which resides in like the fastest growing county in the state? Nope – I wouldn’t want a Wal-Mart by my house, but I had a friend that lives out there say “if it was going to be a Target, I wouold be happier.” I would have been starting to worry when Soo Sports was built. Yes they are small – but in that area – it should have been a sign that it was just the beginning.

23. And Lincoln County isn’t going to stop the city from annexing the land. The people of Harrisburg are dying for something like Wal-Mart as their closest grocery store is 57th and Cliff.

24. Alice- Fifty years ago nobody though Sioux Falls would grow out that far and that is when we settled out there, so yes some people who recently moved there should have seen it coming. However there are numerous people who have live out there for a very long time, and they sort of have a right to express there views and be heard. Do you live in Harrisburg? Hy-vee on 57th and Cliff isn’t much farther away than that Walmart. People who don’t care about economic development of Harrisburg might be dying for the Walmart but that is far from the whole make up of the town. This type of retailer (big box) just doesn’t make sense for the area, it has to do with planing a community in a way that makes sense, logistically, visually and in a way that respects the area. Not just lets put a store here because we can.

25. Justin – we always hear the trope about how these big box stores “aren’t right for the area”… but really? You seriously believe a major intersection such as the one at Minnesota and 85th isn’t an ideal place for a big box store? An area near the new SD100 bypass and that is expected to see significant growth over the next two decades isn’t the right place for a big box store? An area that is vastly underserved in terms of retail options and grocery stores isn’t the right place?

    Where exactly should it go… the corner of 8th and Spring?

    Come on – what you really mean to say is… “it isn’t right in my back yard because I’m not a fan of Walmart and all the traffic it will bring to my neighborhood”… isn’t that a big more accurate?

    We need to be realistic. Walmart isn’t stupid… they build stores where they will do well, so to say a store of that nature isn’t a good fit there tends to overlook the fact that the people who will actually shop at the store strongly disagree.

    All of the talk about traffic and water and access boils down to excuses – because all of them will be addressed in a manner that satisfies Walmart, the city, and the county.

    85th has already been sized to allow for two more lanes and it even has the median with double-sided street lights just waiting for bulbs. Minnesota has already been widened and improved to allow for the mass of traffic which is anticipated. Plans are being looked at to allow for easier access to and from the eventually landing place of SD100.

    I honestly cannot think of a more appropriate location for a Walmart that doesn’t put it half a mile or more away from the city’s edge. That entire area along Minnesota is poised to explode, and soon enough you will see massive retail and commercial development which will in some cases supplant some of the single family homes in the area.

    I might not make everyone happy and a big box store probably won’t be attractive from a cosmetic point of view, but until you can convince people to stop shopping for cheap Chinese crap that was produced at the lowest possible cost and stocked by the lowest paid employees this is a pattern we will continue to see time and time again.

    People think it is amazing that the city will soon be home to four Walmarts… but I’m still amazed people shop at the two we already have.

26. Sprawling “strip-style” development (41st, Minnesota Ave.) and uncoordinated “rural residential communities” (sans retail, sans parks, sanas schools, sans utilities, etc.) is the kind of stuff that happens when you “let the market decide” – or leave development decisions entirely up to individual property owners. Want to get a handle on it? You have implement “evil government regulatory” planning and zoning processes/controls. Pick your poison I guess – huh?

27. Old U.S. Highway 77 (Minnesota Ave. / SD 100) has been a major and undersized travel route for about 75 years. I-29 was to take the main national traffic off the road back in the 1960’s, leading to the removal of the official US-77 designation. For many years there were discussions about returning the old concrete roadbed to gravel when it became a Lincoln County maintained road. The old road was so well built it would not dies, even when the county quit maintaining it.

    As someone who has used the road for over 50 years I can attest to the rise and fall of its fate. The water problems along the road have never been properly addressed. Lincoln County fought and fights to stop housing and business development as the southern rural parts of the county lost political control.

    Harrisburg town and school have continued to have an inferiority complex because of the encroaching Sioux Falls. I won’t go into specifics here but Lincoln county in general has fought the big shots to the north. Historically Sioux Falls has not been a good neighbor. Sioux Falls city hall has continually shoved problems south without concern. I understand the bitterness of people who have lived alongside this road and how they do not want it to change. These people have to realize they will not be able to stop the changes, they need to realize there is a need to work together to make it happen with the least amount of further damage.

    As long a Sioux Falls continues the sprawl model of growth, annexations are going to continue and long established lifestyles will be forced to change.

28. So I guess we are forced to move our family farming operation in order to make room for “growth” sounds fair. Even with land like the Walmart site going for $40000 an acre it is little to mitigate the cost of having to relocate. I guess progress at the expense of others is ok as long as you don’t have to drive an extra mile to get cheap Cheetos. I can continue to preach but I guess you can’t really understand unless you ever had the true sense of being forced out of your lively hood or at the very least being told get out if the way so our live is easier , oh and by the way don’t let the door hit you on the way out. I sure hope people don’t mind waiting behind a combine on there way to shop.

29. “Sprawling ‘strip-style’ development … is the kind of stuff that happens when you “let the market decide’ “

    Only when that market is distorted by public subsidies for suburban development patterns. These include the mortgage-interest deduction, subsidization of the Highway Trust Fund (no, highways don’t pay for themselves!), governmental transfer payments, etc. In a truly free market (i.e., where people have to pay for the choices they make), suburbs as we know them now would not exist. Traditional urban neighborhoods (like the core neighborhoods of SF) will always prove to be the most financially resilient development model when market distortions are eliminated.

30. Justin nobody is going to force anyone to sell their land are they? If you don’t own the land that Walmart is buying, then it shouldn’t force you anywhere. If you do own the land – congratulations… you are going to be selling your land at 10x the present market value of farmland that you already admit has water issues.

    If on the other hand you own land nearby – then again congratulations – you will soon own land that can be sold at price levels you would never have realized if you were 20 miles outside of town.

    Life and progress aren’t always fair Justin… not much you or I can do about that, but you have to take the good with the bad. No matter where Walmart builds, there is someone who is going to have to give up their land and someone who will profit handsomely for doing so.

31. FWIW – about 35 years ago, after having struggled for many years to operate a successful dairy farm in SD, an expanding Hutterite group offered my uncle above market value for his farm. He took the money and moved his dairy operation to Wisconsin – where there is a lot better chance to succeed as a dairy farmer. Best thing that ever happened to them. Different kind of “development” – but……….

32. As usual in the Sioux Falls area, developers and real estate brokers will sell property promising a panacea of wonderful things to plan on. Once the property is sold to the gullible, they find its a great place for a big box.

    As long as you are anyplace near a major intersection in a potential growth area near Marian Road, Minnesota Ave, Cliff Ave, 26th Street, 57th or others this will likely happen to you. Be the first out there and be the first to have your life disrupted. Those who are farmers in these areas, start planning your futures. As long as Sioux Falls promotes the sprawl, plan your futures accordingly.

    Never believe anything Sioux Falls “planners”, believe their actions. Look to their past to see what is in your future.

33. While the annexation went thru last night, don’t think that a fight wont be coming. People are coming around to the mayor and his games.

34. Nobody wants Walmart but yet everyone shops there. Why? Tell Walmart to go to hell and spend that money with a Mom and Pop shop that cares about the community.

    Pretty simple………….except for the fact that they all want Walmart, just not in their neighborhood.

    I am surprised that caps with a front and back bill is not the #1 seller in this state.

35. $40,000/acre seems low for that land. I believe Walmart bought the corn field on the east side for $7.00/sq ft.

    Even though many of the neighbors over here on the east side didn’t want Walmart or Hwy 100 or Dawley Farms, all the development has been good for our neighborhood as we now have many choices for shopping and entertainment that was unavailable without going to the Empire mall area 10-12 years ago.

    Traffic flow is better because of Hwy 100 and will be even better by next winter when the stretch to 57th is complete.

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