ARGUS LEADER: Building Boom map: ‘Never seen it this busy’Â
Another set of large commercial projects, two new Walmart supercenters, that were expected to start construction this year have been delayed. It’s now unknown whether work will begin yet this year, but company officials have said at least the north-side store is on track to open in 2014.
The planning commission Wednesday approved a conditional-use permit for that store, at 60th Street and Marion Road. Another Walmart at 85th Street and Minnesota Avenue has further to go; the council agreed to rezone land for the project Tuesday.
A conditional-use permit for the south-side store would go before the planning commission in October at the earliest, Schmitt said. If the permits for each site are approved, the company then would be able to apply for building permits.
“We don’t know if they will pull a building permit yet this year,” he said. It’s a question of “how much work can you get done in South Dakota in the fall versus do you wait until first thing in the spring.”
For now, it appears that the 60th & Marion project appears to finally be moving forward on its own merits, but if SON decides to refer Tuesday night’s council decision you can fully expect MMM, Jeff Schmitt, and other city officials to change their tune.
Look for Jeff Schmitt’s quote concerning the construction start time at 60th & Marion to go from,
“It’s a question of how much work can you get done in South Dakota in the fall versus do you wait until first thing in the spring” to,
“Now that SON has referred the council’s rezoning decision at 85th & Minnesota, they have effectively stalled the construction at 60th & Marion at the same time.”
The take away from this article is this: the SON group really didn’t hold up millions of dollars in projects all over the city, just the Walmart project at 85th & Minnesota.  MMM and his merry band of pranksters are banking on the inattention of Sioux Falls citizens on this one.
KDLT: The next step for Walmart is to get a conditional use permit approved. That will allow the proposed 185,000 square foot Walmart to be built. A C-4, or commercial zoning, only allows up to a 15,000 square foot building. Council members said they expect to approve that permit as well.  Â
As suspected, the city council had their minds made up long before their vote on Tuesday night. Now it appears that the conditional use permitting process that these citizens fought so hard to protect by referring the proposed Shape Places Zoning Ordinances will simply be a rubber stamp for Mayor Huether’s agenda. “Trust the process,” MMM told them. That certainly isn’t how “the process” is intended to work, but whatever Mikey likes, apparently Mikey gets.
Based on this, these citizens have only one option, a referendum of Tuesday night’s decision.
Re: ‘Never seen it this busy’
Growth is great and all, but the type of big-box, sprawling growth that SF is awash in brings with it more outlays (roads, sewers, utilities, and future maintenance on all those) than revenue.
Doesn’t it strike anybody else as odd that the city bonds for things like storm sewer replacement and the 41st St bridge? It’s not like we didn’t know those things would have to be replaced someday. The fact of the matter is that there isn’t really any plan on how to pay for the future maintenance obligations of the infrastructure that gets built.
I wonder what the results would be if the city did a full accounting of all of the maintenance costs that will be needed to maintain the current, in-the-ground infrastructure over, say, the next 30 years (or 50, or 100), and then annualize that into a per-year need. My guess is it would show that, not only do we not have the means to maintain the new infrastructure that is being built out, but we probably don’t have the revenue to maintain what we already have.
They can’t keep up. Ask Munson about it over the over 100 homes that had shat backing up in their basements, not once, but twice within a couple of weeks. Or the peeps who had sewage pouring down their streets. Growth with poor planning and management is a bad thing. I think this is the point SON is trying to drive home.
“The take away from this article is this: the SON group really didn’t hold up millions of dollars in projects all over the city, just the Walmart project at 85th & Minnesota.”
Actually their desire to delay Walmart by requiring the citizens to vote on Shape Places did in fact result in numerous other projects being delayed – and in some cases the projects most likely are on hold until after the vote.
Yes those projects can revert back to the existing process, but as we witnessed with Walmart that simply results in more delays. In the case of 85th and Minnesota, the end result was the same, but for some other projects that are contingent upon the updated zoning as part of Shape Places the end result isn’t so clear.
Not that it really matters, in most cases things will still get done albeit at a slower pace. The comical aspect of all of this is that the Shape Places was open to comments for something like two years and nobody had any issues with it until SON woke up and realized it directly impacted them. So much for doing your homework.
“That certainly isn’t how “the process†is intended to work, but whatever Mikey likes, apparently Mikey gets.”
I’m confused by this statement – are you saying this isn’t how the process is supposed to work merely because the outcome was different than what you had hoped for, or are you suggesting the process doesn’t work because you expect city councilors to wait until the last moment in order to make up their minds?
It would seem to me and the process works exactly as it should. The final vote really doesn’t matter – the method of presenting both sides, doing research, delaying the vote specifically to study the issue further, asking questions, soliciting citizen feedback…. it all is a part of the solution isn’t it?
Eh, I think SON is more about anti-Walmart protests than anything truly substantive. The fact of the matter is that neighborhoods like 85th & Minnesota – that is, sprawling, auto-dependent, and heavily subsidized (whether they know it or not) – are themselves the problem. I know – I grew up about a mile or so from there.
Frankly, this lawsuit and everything related to it would disappear in two seconds if the name on the side of the building changed from ‘Walmart’ to ‘Target’.
Tom – You are right, because #1, Target would not build a 24 hour store and #2 a 185,000 sq. ft. store.
“Frankly, this lawsuit and everything related to it would disappear in two seconds if the name on the side of the building changed from ‘Walmart’ to ‘Target’.”
They claim that isn’t the case Tom, and Dana Palmer (SON spokesperson) has stated the issue is not Walmart but rather the big box store concept.
Of course what people say, and how they feel are two different things. We saw a similar issue at 69th and Cliff when Hy-Vee wanted to build… not single complain was heard. However when Walmart decided they wanted that same slice of land, all of the sudden you started hearing about traffic and the proximity of SF Christian and how little kids would be getting run over on their way to school.
I tend to agree with you that if it were a Hy-Vee or a Target we probably wouldn’t be hearing as many complaints, however I also have to admit Walmart has earned its reputation and if given my choice of living next to a Target or Walmart… the decision would be VERY easy.
WM is greedy, that is why they build gigantic 24 hour stores. I have a friend who used to get food stamps a few years ago, he said WM was a MADHOUSE at midnight when the cards were reloaded. He said to me “You think it was Black Friday.”
l3wis, the typical SuperTarget is around 175,000 square feet so not that far off from Walmart (I don’t believe they have the auto center which is the primary difference). Considering how Target has wanted to expand into more grocery offerings, I’d expect if they build a new store it might actually be a larger Super Target.
However, you are right that they wouldn’t be open 24 hours. Most Target stores close no later than 11:00pm.
But is the 24 concept really a huge deal? I guess I wouldn’t expect them to get a lot of traffic at 3AM so would it really be a noise issue? Delivery trucks would still come and go as usual regardless of the store being open, so I wonder if the difference would be a major issue.
It is an issue, trust me, I was a ‘nightcrawler’ for awhile. It’s a whole different ball of wax and shopper, as I mentioned above. I wouldn’t want these people lurking even within a mile of my neighborhood (I’m not talking WM shoppers, but night owls). Not all peeps who work at night, and shop at night, are bad, not saying that. But I can guarantee a lot more crime happens in the wee-wee hours.
The dynamics or lack there of would preclude Target from building a super Target here. Once again stop comparing apples to watermelons to oranges, it makes no sense. Target has stated there is no reason to build a super Target here so why muddy the discussion with such junk?
Most of the residents of 85th and Audi have stated they have been WM shoppers. They are just asking for proportionality. An area Sioux Falls planners have stated would hold the smaller building WM is currently building in other locations would likely pass muster. Why don’t they even discuss this if the purpose of this WM is to take a load off the Louise Ave store and most WM shoppers are grocery based shoppers, make it the smaller footprint?
Sort of like 24 hour Fryin’ Pan. A friggin’ nightmare after 2:00am.
I have been to a Walgreens at night though… and I’ve been to Hy-Vee a few times as well. I’d like to complain about 24 hour stores, but when I find myself out of Fruity Pebbles at 1:30am I’m pretty happy they are open.
Just sayin’.
“Target has stated there is no reason to build a super Target here so why muddy the discussion with such junk?”
Relax Testor… we’re just talking.
However, Target originally said they had no plans to sell groceries in their West side store as well… how did that pan out?
Walmart said they were going to build a store near 60th and Marion…. then they said the store was cancelled, then they said it would only happen if the 85th and Minnesota store happened at the same time, now they are saying they plan to have the store open sometime in 2014.
Bottom line – viewpoints change, consumer demand drives decisions, and Target isn’t about to walk away from an opportunity. If their market researchers tell them a Super Target would now work in Sioux Falls even though it wouldn’t work five years ago when it was last discussed…. you can bet they would start planning on where to build one.
By the way – if you can get past the horrible editing, this recent story from KELO is rather telling of how people feel about Walmart vs. Target.
http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/target-eyes-land-where-walmart-couldnt-build-in-fargo/?id=151473
Checked out that link comparing the site in Fargo and the site in Sioux Falls. Thanks for sharing Craig.
First thing I noticed is the Fargo site is bordered by a little north-south road called I-29. That is a little different than the north-south Minnesota Avenue in Sioux Falls.
Second thing I noticed was how the proposed site in Fargo is buffered by future apartments around the big-box. That won’t happen at the Sioux Falls site as the commercial space occupied by Walmart and its outlots would be directly adjacent to Twin-Eagle with no buffering. Oh wait, the BS office space they added should really help curtail all that traffic to avoid Kermit’s “negative spill-over” for those homes. Riiiiight Kermie.
Third thing, the folks from SON did a good job of making their original fight not about Walmart, but I think they should take the gloves off now and make it ALL about Walmart. Craig is right, Target would be a hell of a lot better to have as a neighbor than Walmart and most people feel the same way.
The Walmart store in Fargo is far more impressive with the all brick facade than that piece of garbage they supposedly spent all kinds of time sprucing up to appease the neighborhood in SF. Loved the 30 foot tall, 20 year old trees planted 10 feet apart all around their outlots too. Who are they kidding?
After watching the city council meeting on Tuesday night on city link I am fully behind these folks. We should all expect more from our elected officials. Entenman and Karsky are a couple of lap-dogs for the mayor, Kermit is just plain Kermit, and the rest just followed suit. At least Jamison had the balls to call a spade a spade.
What is stopping Walmart or dicks sporting goods for that matter, from building under current ordinences?
“At least Jamison had the balls to call a spade a spade.”
Yeah, except he was the only vote last year for a rezone that would’ve let Walmart drop the same building on a parcel half the size, directly across from a school, and with a loading entrance directly abutting people’s backyards, with no non-commercial buffer on the parcel whatsoever.
I get that some of you don’t like Walmart, and that’s all fine and well. But can you stop deluding yourselves that Greg Jamison is some kind of conscientious hero on this matter? He’s a shallow, flip-flopping hypocrite who is apparently the only person on earth who thinks Walmart was a better fit on 69th and Cliff and than it is at 85th and Minnesota.
hornguy, if you were to sit through as many bs sessions with both sides of this issue you would understand why Greg sees it differently than 69th.
The neighborhood at 26th and Minnesota went through all this whining, ‘not in my neighborhood’ attitude back when Walgreens was building there too. Once all the elitists crawled back into their hidey holes and the store was built, everyone realized it wasn’t so bad and seems to be a welcome addition to the neighborhood today.
I’m not a huge fan of Wal-Mart and generally try to avoid the crowded mess that is the S. Louise location but at the end of the day, they’ve done everything they needed to build at a site designed for commercial growth. Our elected officials have weighed in and the decision has been made.
“Kermit is just plain Kermit”
I don’t claim to be an expert on ‘all things Kermit’ but I know him pretty good. I consider him an aquaintance friend. I respect him, and he is highly intelligent. The thing about Kermit is you have to read between the lines. His KDLT interview was very telling, and I told some SON people what I thought of it. If you listen closely, Kermit says he ‘trusts’ planning employees to give him good information. What Kermit is really saying IMO, is ‘It’s all on them.’ Kermit has seen his share of poppycock from mayors, and what is drizzled down to councilors. Kermit based his vote on the administration’s recommendation. Cotton Candy for everyone!
And why is that, Testor? How is it that Greg Jamison is the only person on that council who voted on both proposals who thinks that 85th and Minnesota is a worse location for a Walmart than 69th and Cliff? Enlighten us all, please. Clearly you believe you know something that might help others of us understand what otherwise looks like shallow political opportunism. Why not share your thoughts with the class?
Give me a break Testor. I generally admire Jamison and think he would be a good Mayor, but he has clearly flip-flopped on the Walmart issue. If 85th and Minnesota isn’t an acceptable location, then 69th and Cliff was far, far worse. At that location residents didn’t even have a road separating them from Walmart nor was there any consideration for office space buffering. It wasn’t across the street from homes – it was directly aside them. It also had a school across the street and was directly between the school and the residential neighborhoods meaning any kids that walked or biked to school would do so directly in front of Walmart.
Greg voted the way he did because he is trying to be the anti-Huether candidate for Mayor. It was pure politics, and I’m disappointed that he would do a complete 180 on the issue. He knew full well the zoning issue would pass so it didn’t take much courage to distance himself from the issue.
I just hope he has a lot more substance to work on going forward, because if he intends to win an election based upon being what Huether is not – he has a long, uphill battle ahead of him.
The crime argument is really part of the “I hate Walmart” argument. It happened during the discussion on the east side too. It was as if people would leave Walmart and drive directly to my house and rob me.
I see there have been a few larcenies in the Twin Eagle addition in the last year so the Walmart shoppers must be doing a preemptive strike.
The adjacent argument is just plain wrong. On the east side there are homes within a football field of Walmart and dozens of homes closer to Walmart, Target, Kohls than any home will be to the actual Walmart building @ 85th/Minn. That building is only taking up around 25% of the total acreage there, if that.
Actually – SON has several other options to going for a referral. Unless, of course, their only objective is obstruction for the sake of obstruction; which may be the case.
To OSF’s point – there are homes directly across the street from Menard’s on the East side.
Seems SON has a lot more support then people would think. Notice these people said, “They wouldn’t want a WM across the street from them either.”
http://www.ksfy.com/category/185294/video?clipId=9181516&topVideoCatNo=185293&autoStart=true
There are many things I would be fine with in my neighborhood. Honestly – this would not be one of them. There is a reason I have step foot in the Wal-Mart on Louise literally two times in my life. It is a constant cluster mess that I do not choose to touch – even for their so-called rollback prices – with a ten foot pole. I don’t blame these people one bit. Yes, I am sure they anticipated some commercial growth, but this plan is out of bounds. If Wal-Mart isn’t willing to make some reasonable accommodations which I feel have been presented, I would fight them till the end. Their one size fits all just because they are Wal-Mart is ridiculous. Their shitty wage jobs aren’t worth it. If they were a good neighbor first and greedy suckers second, they would be amazed how much more they would be accepted and appreciated. Right now, they get railed by the media constantly for their treatment of employees and the sad thing is, they do give back to the community, but as greedy as they are, they should! I haven’t always felt that SON had a valid case – but I do now. Where do I sign?
“Seems SON has a lot more support then people would think. Notice these people said, “They wouldn’t want a WM across the street from them either.â€
Based on *two* people in a TV interview, both of whom indicated neutral to positive feelings towards Walmart and neither of whom indicated that their sympathy would dictate their vote?
Between this and your lousy attempt to generalize public sector pay, you’re really playing fast and loose with anything that’ll help you grind your axe these days, no?
Karma, a petition drive is starting tomorrow. We will have 20 days to collect signatures. I will print a form out when available and can alert you when available to sign. Bring 19 of your registered voting friends.