“These EC numbers just don’t add up!” Scrooge
Oh, city, how you crack me up with your little ‘hidden’ contract approvals . . . (Item# 1)
So we are upgrading the ‘Arena’ parking lot. Ah, yeah. But this has absolutely ‘NOTHING’ to do with the new EC or budget . . .
Well, its off-budget like the Iraq War.
Not surprised at all they would do that. When voted and passed with $115 mil budget, I was like ‘Really?’. I knew and most of you knew they will sneak in bunch of craps that won’t show up on the original budget for EC.
Total cost of $230 mil for Huether and his ilks’ pet project sounded about right when all is done with.
Remember this when you go to vote next April.
DL – So if this is actually for Arena improvements, you believe it should be in the EC budget?
Oh well, they’ll make up the difference with unsubstantiated unconstitutional citations, fees, & fines.
“If you like your healthcare plan you can keep it, period.” Why would anyone question what we we’re told/sold about the cost of the Event Center?
OSF- The Arena, EC and CC all share the parking lot out there with Canaries Stadium and Howard Wood. The Arena parking would probably not need these updates if the EC was not being built. IMO, I still think we should have dropped about 20 million and renovated the Arena, expanded the CC instead of building a new EC. There will be two key factors missing when the EC opens, a parking ramp and another on-site hotel.
I know, lets pay for the EC buy installing parking meters for each parking space at the EC. Why not. It costs you around a billion to park at an NFL, NHL,NBA or MLB game.
And no appeals. If you get a ticket, pay it and go F&#^ yourself. The world seems so much easier after I have converted myself to the RufCraig Utopia mentality.
Could I interest anyone in a TIF? It goes excellent with our new tennis slushy fund.
Sorry to have hurt your feelings so often that you need to invoke my name on a regular basis LJL. However, since you brought it up, I never said they should deny appeals, and I also stated if the fine is overturned on appeal there should be no fine (and there isn’t by the way… apparently most of you overlooked that little point).
Meanwhile, if there was no cost of appeal, how many frivolous parking tickets would be appealed? I’m guessing hundreds or perhaps even thousands a year – all of which would cost us (the taxpayer) tends of thousands to process and administer.
So if you want to subsidize the behavior of law-breakers, feel free to send your contribution directly to City Hall, but back in the real world that has rules and regulations based upon logic and actual human behavior, I’ll continue to believe that asking someone to pay $5 to appeal a parking ticket is more than reasonable… especially when they refund the $5 if the appeal is successful.
On a bigger scale, this is a perfect example how many of you go out of your way to find something to complain about on a daily basis. I can’t imagine living a life where I’m in a continual furrowed-brow state of mind… you must be a huge blast at parties.
Now as to the issue of the EC “parking lot”, I guess I’d have to know what the “improvements” are before leaping to conclusions as so many are obviously willing to do. If it involves a new surface layer, new striping, or perhaps some crack repair it may be on the regular schedule and would have needed to be done anyway. On the other hand, if they are talking about redesigning a portion, changing access, or improving the portions that were impacted as a direct result of the new EC then it is a different story.
Of course I really don’t know because the only thing I have to go on is a line item which also happens to include Arena building improvements, so for all I know it includes renovations that have nothing to do with the new EC. I also am unsure what “parking lot amendment to agreement” even means – and thus it might simply mean they had to change the contract for snow removal since the size and location of the lots have changed since last year.
But hey – it is much more fun to leap to conclusions as we fulfill our daily quota of cynical, city-centered complaints…. so let’s just make something up and then complain about our version of events right??? Who’s with me guys???
DL – I told a council member they should have just spent another $20 million and built a ramp south of and connecting to the EC right away as it is already needed. And instead of charging a “parking fee” or whatever it may be on event tickets, charge $15 a car to park on any of the city owned lots out there and $20 to park in the ramp. And the businesses out there south of the Stadium could either charge $5/10 for parking or let a church/charitable group raise money by using their lot to do the same.
I’ll “complain” about something – but it’s substantiated by research – not made up. The “Conservative mind” (noiw there’s an oxymoron) feels more comfortable with issues when it can assign them to a “personality” and avoid addressing the actual logical merits of their position. Examples of it all over this place. Topic warping – personal attacks.
People who are addicted to the auto culture SHOULD pay directly (fees) for the amenities (lots and ramps)that support their driving habit.
This is interesting, I see several comments on this thread thinking it is OK to charge a fee upfront for the appeals process.
There should never be a fee to appeal an injustice perceived or not. What country do you think this is?
The “fine” is the fee. We pay taxes to cover the costs of running the system. The “fine” is the cost of the penalty. There should never be a penalty to pay for an injustice. Read a few US Supreme Court and SD Supreme Court rulings (pre-ALEC / Reagan of course)
Why should a person not be able to appeal just because they cannot afford to front end the appeals system. There also should never be an additional fee if they present a case and it rules against them. The known cost of the appeal is the fine originally assessed.
Testor, I fail to see why a fee for an appeal is an injustice. It is no different than filing fees mean to cover paperwork costs at ANY court system in America.
Even in a criminal proceeding appeals aren’t free. Yes, we as taxpayers foot the bill for many, but there is still a cost either way.
You want to bake the cost of the appeal into the fine itself? Great…. parking tickets just went from $5 to $125. Careful what you wish for – you just might get it.
Craig and all, justice and it’s process should never be available to those who can pay.
I’ll overlook your grammatical error and assume you meant that it should not ONLY be available to those who pay, but even that is a silly notion.
We have public defenders and a system that already accounts for those who can’t pay. Justice as a whole is a very complex subject however, and I’m not going to even attempt to make blanket statements about something that could involve civil rights all the way down to a parking meter flashing because someone forgot to drop in a dime.
Of course if someone wins an appeal there is no cost – but don’t let that little fact get in the way of your soapbox revue.
In California – typical fines for simple parking violations – both northern and southern – were in the $50-60 range – in early 1990’s. Yeah, there was ALSO a fee to appeal – $150.
Should building permits, zoning hearings, etc. be free also testor?
I know from experience that parking tickets on the campus of SDSU cost at least $30 back in the early 90s. They are probably at least $40 or $50 by now considering the increase of everything else at our state schools.
$5 for a parking ticket just goes to show you the city doesn’t do this to make money – they do it as a deterrent.
I’d be in full support of Testor’s idea if we started adding on court costs to the tickets when someone appeals just as they do for some traffic violations. So if you get a $80 speeding ticket and show up in court to appeal and you lose… then you need to pay $80, plus costs (typically anywhere from $20 – 45). It isn’t the appeal you are paying for, it is the court’s time, paperwork, and the processing.
Otherwise we need to raise the rates of the fine to capture all the costs of the system because otherwise we are using taxpayer money to subsidize those who park illegally. As I said before you will soon have $125 parking tickets as everyone realizes there is no cost to appeal and therefore they feel they are “sticking it to the man” to make things difficult. If you don’t think people are that petty – go downtown and ask the clerks who accept payment for the fines. I know someone who used to do that… and of course people would come in with mason jars worth of pennies to pay their $5 or $15 ticket. Before you ask – yes the city is required to accept pennies as payment as it is legal tender.
“We have public defenders and a system that already accounts for those who can’t pay.” You are kidding, right?
In what world are you living to think the few and over worked public defenders are out there ready and able to help. With budget cuts and other political issues happening, public defender system is left with more cases than can be properly and legally helped.
I will repeat what was said above (in a possibly clearer way?). Justice and it’s process should never be available to those who can pay the big bucks. Just like healthcare, it should be available to all, even those who cannot pay.
The city had a case a few years ago they lost where the military vet spent everything to get to Sioux Falls for medical care, had his car towed and he fought to get the car back. He struggled through the ‘system’ in war than Sioux Falls, “Whattt Aaa City!”
http://www.argusleader.com/article/20131110/COLUMNISTS0111/311100020/Lalley-Cup-coffee-causes-parking-fine-dilemma