Note: This image is from an early recommendation of the EC task force when they were suggesting to eliminate Howard Wood Field.
I guess I haven’t really thought about this much (because I really don’t think we will use the 12,000 seats that will exist when the EC opens, let alone 15,000). But I vaguely recall it being sold to us that way.
I could find only one news story from KSFY talking about the expansion;
“We’re excited to be at this point. We’re excited people voted for this and we’re looking forward to continuing to work with the city on it,” Dethlefs said.
The next step is for architectural firms to finalize the plans. The plans will then go to the city for approval.
There’s room to grow with this facility. Crews are designing it to add another 3,000 seats if it’s needed in the future.
So why am I questioning this now? For one, I think it was one of BID’s campaign promises, I also think the EC task force recommended it, and I believe the voter’s were sold on this concept, even after the victorious vote.
And, you can’t seem to get a little suspicious when the mayor says the project is ahead of schedule and under budget.
As I understand it, there can be ‘geological and rock’ issues after surveying the land, and this can change the foundation and footprint plans of a project, which ultimately changes the entire building. The First Phase of the River Greenway had to have a change order after they found too much of the elusive Sioux Quartzite.
So I ask the city, is the EC being built to be expandable to 15,000 seats? And if not, when were you going to inform us? If ever? And if it is being built for expansion, will you show us the proof and plans?
Just curious, for now.
Five years from now, when the city finally figures out there is no market for 12,000 seaters, (at least that are in black ink) can it be reduced to 8,000? Oh?!?!? That’s what the curtains are for?
Never mind.
I hope they don’t have to tear out the imported Italian tile to expand.
Curtains. Just like the Metrodome. Nice.
Although I shouldn’t be too hard on the Metrodome.It was built for $80M in 1982 (about $185M in today’s dollars) and served 4 big teams (Gophers football, Vikes, Twins, 1 year of Timberwolves) for over 30 years. We can’t even keep the Skyforce.
The location is awful but the capacity is just about spot on. There’s absolutely a market for a 12k seat arena. The majority of events at the arena won’t sell 12k seats, sure. But a lot of top acts aren’t going to give you a look if you’re a venue much smaller than that, and that’s presumably a major consideration here. You’ve at least got to be able to offer something better in terms of quality and capacity than Sioux City.
When one looks at last year’s top 25 touring acts, it’s not like Madonna or Kanye is showing up here. But a lot of the acts that tour well are country acts that are right up this market’s alley – Kenny Chesney, Jason Aldean, Lady Antebellum, Brad Paisley, etc.
Plus, the cost of going from 10k to 12k (or 15k, for that matter) is modest – it’s not like a 12k seat facility is twice as expensive as a 6k seat facility. If you’re going to spend the money to build, it makes way more sense to err on the side of building too large.
The location is awful but the capacity is just about spot on
I beg to differ. The Pinnacle Haymarket has been open for a couple months now in Lincoln. Aside from having a major div 1 college as tenants and about 1.2 million people within an 80 mile radius, it has yet to have a sellout with 5 major acts playing there.
We lack a tenant with drawing power like Pinnacle and a population base. Sure, tdenny will see to it the place is nearly full for the first couple of gigs. But I think his underpaid employees here in town would rather see a raise than tickets to a Eagles concert.
This place has a gigantic FAIL written all over it. Grandfalls has has several concerts that will outdraw this place. Next month I’m going to a Kip Moore concert at the District, which will be one more event than I will EVER see at tdennys.
Hey…Scott Hudson, my resident guru in this area, feel free to pipe in anytime you want. 🙂
Poly, I just interviewed Kip last week!
Yeah, this building has fail all over it, and it doesn’t matter where it’s built. Our city is known nationally for its lack of support of all sizes of venues. It’s not going to change just because we have a shiny new building.
Take away the first few months. Bigger names than usual will be booked, and special arrangements will be made to keep ticket prices low.
After that, I smell disaster. Remember one important thing about arena shows. It’s not like a club show, where you pay xxxx amount of money to the act no matter the size of the venue. Or something like Ribfest, where you pay Kory five hundred bucks and make thousands. The guarantee for an arena show is the full ticket prices of 85-90% of the total seating, and then there is a percentage split for anything above that. So in a city that rarely sells 8,000 seats (very rarely), almost 11,000 will now have to be sold to just break even. Few promoters will want to take that risk. And if the curtains are used to lower the ticket numbers (and the risk), why are we building this place?
And this is at a time where the music industry is tanking. It’s even worse than you think, and it’s not because of downloading. Or not only because of downloading. There aren’t acts these days that the entire general population knows or likes. Macklemore can top the charts without most people ever hearing of them. Arcade Fire also tops the charts, and then everybody complains they’ve never heard of them when they win a Grammy. I was assigned Florida Georgia Line a few weeks ago, and nobody I knew had heard of them even though they had just set a record for the most week’s at #1 on the country singles charts. Those that are household names are more because they’re celebrities than musicians. Miley Cyrus can be on the cover of every magazine in the world, but unless you booked her the day after her infamous MTV appearance you’re going to see a half-empty building.
Hey Scott my man. Thanks for the definitive voice of reason. You interviewed him eh? Any chance you’re doing anything on your Sunday show about his music? Never heard of him before myself, but some younger folks I know talked me into it. It will be a complete success for me if the girl in the red dress is there.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3YfNFR6gh2E
Oooh, she’s a hotty!
I don’t own any of his music, but I was pretty impressed with him. He actually writes his own songs, and is dismissive of the current country acts that use the songwriting and image factories.
I finally figured this out. We’ve built an EC, Pavilion, Arena, soon an indoor pool, & soon a tennis center for nobility. It’s all to keep the utilities from leaving town. It’s a medium size city. To keep gas and electric we must pay for large unnecessary indoor expanse. Someday, when pot’s legal these can become ready made indoor grow farms.
That Huether, he’s so smart, he is.
Scott – Agree with your analysis but just wanted to point out that Kory and the Fireflies are a minimum of $5 K and closer to probably $7 or $8 for a show…not $500 bucks.
Yeah, I know, sky. I was being a bit sarcastic on that one. The point, though, is the difference between guarantees on small and big shows.
The point, though, is the difference between guarantees on small and big shows.
And that is exactly why this thread and topic should be bookmarked for future reference. Scott has it nailed. By your estimates then Pinnacle in Lincoln has yet to show a net gain with already 5 major concerts. That is scary because they draw from a town where the center is walking distance from a school with 25,000 students and has 4 times as many people within a hundred mile radius as SF does.
I will say tho that the Pinnacle must be playing the “curtain” game. Their last show, by Pink was labeled a sellout. It was by far their most successful show so far out of the five they’ve put on. Sellout when 14,077 tickets are sold and the place holds 16,120 for concerts? The numbers don’t add up.
Scott…gotcha!
Easy, Poly. Pink uses an end stage setup, which means they’re losing about 1,500 seats right off the top. Also, most venues don’t count orphaned single seats against a sellout, of which there are inevitably a couple hundred at a venue that size when you allow people to choose their own seats online. It’s nearly impossible to move single seats since most people attend concerts with friends.
The capacity you’re citing assumes a center stage setup, where they can sell most of the floor and all of the seats in the bowl.
Man, it sure is more fun to engage in ignorant hypothesis and conspiracy than look s@#$ up in Wikipedia, isn’t it? Because debunking your nonsense took me about 90 seconds.
Oh, and they sold that concert out in 10 minutes and did better presale numbers than any other venue on the tour with the exception of MSG. But hey, you keep clinging to your guns and your religion and don’t let facts get in your way, okay?
Just checked. I can still get tickets to the Friday nite and sat nite concerts at pinnacle. Elton John on Saturday nite has been selling tickets since early September for this show. Still selling? In a city with 8 times the amount of college kids as we have within walking distance of the arena? In a city that has 4 times as many people to draw from as we do within a hundred mile radius? Like Scott says….FAIL. And for all the reasons he mentions.
If its all the same to you horn, I’ll stick to the “Guesswho” at grand falls and kip at the district for a third of the price. A McArena in this town ain’t gonna cut it.
On a related note horn, when someone ever decides to build a hotel across Russell ave from your McArena who’s gonna foot the bill for the multimillion dollar pedestrian bridge we will need? Keep in mind, pinnacles only cost 7.9 million.
I’ve got an idea. Why don’t you all wait until the place is open for 12-18 months and THEN maybe you will have the ammunition you need to support your argument. It is here, it is going to open, and the rest of the arguments are all water under the bridge!! Remember the election, the majority did decide?
So because it’s being built, we can’t discuss it? Interesting. Isn’t that kind of like saying that because Obamacare became the law, nobody should criticize it?
BH,
I have an even better idea.
Let’s see a listing of the conventions the CVB has lined up for the years 2014, 2015, and 2016. They are the EC’s major tenant, afterall!
Scott, Certainly you may discuss it. However, it would seem that the tone of the discussions would lead one to believe that minds have been made up that indeed it will be a failure. I’m just saying lets get the facts first. By the way I was a supporter of a site downtown. Aside from that perspective, discuss away.
I don’t think the EC will be a total failure, but it certainly will have to be heavily subsidized for years. Still think we should have refitted the Arena and expanded the CC instead.
Remember the election, the majority did decide?
The majority? Majority of what? 23% of eligible voters voted for it. Is that the majority you’re talking about? Of that 23%, 70% of those were from south of I-229. Because soccer moms bought into the justin bieber advertising blitzkrieg does not mean that’s what the majority actually wants.
I recall when the good mayor was on rant-a-bit discussing his event center score the election. Scott H, as I recall, you backed him into a corner in the entertainment angle, so he said it was mainly about added convention space. I believe he even said we would have a shot at hosting NCAA regional basketball tournaments. I knew that was as much a lie then as it is now. NEVER gonna happen. NCAA div. II? Sure thing. But those games can be played in the Elmen Center without a sellout.
Ah yes, that Justin Bieber angle they used. I made a joke at the time that by the time this thing is built he’ll be playing county fairs anyway. It turns out he’s well on his way to making true that prediction.
http://perezhilton.com/2013-11-19-justin-bieber-half-priced-concert-tickets-australian-resale-numbers-lower-than-one-direction-kangaroos
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/11/justin-bieber-ticket-sales-down-scandal-australia/
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