[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n2P0QsTe8c[/youtube]
Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) and Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.) sparred sharply on the Senate floor Monday evening, a departure from the usually dormant speeches in the august chamber. Franken said he was struck by a speech in which he said Thune had refused to highlight when benefits to the health care bill would kick in and instead emphasized the negative parts of the bill. “You know, again, we are entitled to our own opinions, we’re not entitled to our own facts,†Franken said, his booming voice rising. And in a reference to a chart Thune held up, Franken said: “If you’re going to hold up a chart that says when taxes kick in and when benefits kick in, you say 1,800 days, you better include the benefits that do kick in right away.â€Â Thune, No. 4 in GOP leadership, asked the freshman Democrat to yield for a question, and asked: “Did the senator from Minnesota, when I was pointing out the chart, understand the point I was making – that the tax increases start 18 days from now, and that the benefits, the spending benefits under the bill which are the premium tax credits and the exchanges that are designed to provide the benefit that’s delivered under this bill don’t start until 2014?â€Â Franken responded sharply: “Does the senator understand that spending benefits start right away?â€Â To which, Thune said tersely: “If the senator missed the point, I can get the chart out again.â€Â Franken said: “I asked a question, senator. I yield to you for a question. I’m asking a question.â€Â Senators typically argue in less direct terms on the floor, and a sharp exchange between a freshman senator and a member of the other party’s leadership is unusual. Franken laid out a series of benefits he said would kick in right away. When Thune tried to ask a question, Franken yielded his floor time to Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) instead. Brown accused the GOP of siding with insurance companies, and when Thune tried to ask Brown a question, Brown said the Democrats had already given the Republicans 30 minutes to argue their points. “We have our time,†Franken said. “Sen. Thune wants to monopolize our 30 minutes,†Brown said. Thune again tried to interject, but Franken refused to yield to Thune for a question.
At which point, Thune left the floor. Franken continued his speech, saying Thune “doesn’t want to hear†that benefits kick in sooner.
Thanks! This is beautiful! It makes me want to move back to Minnesota.
Big Bad Johnny gets punk’d by Stuart Smalley.
Fantastic.!
John Thune has never dealt with with true facts. That is how he was elected to the Senate. It is the reason the tea party faction admires him.
I love Al Franken. I miss him on Air America, but already he is proving to be a great senator and one who reads and knows the difference between facts and BS.
Living by a seperate standard and a seperate set of facts is how John Thune has survived. Using the Monihan quote, Franken exposed Thune for the raw political animal he is as well as how spoiled rotten he has become. Yet, no Democrats are running against Thune who is already running his 2012 campaign for the GOP presidential nomination.
I think there would be tons of national donor money to knock Thune out in 2010 instead of waiting until 2012 when he’ll be a more formidible threat. Don’t believe me? Ask Tom Daschle and Tim Johnson. They ignored the threat until it got to be too late.
He is the media darling, that is how he gets away with it.
Lovely,coming from someone who stole an election in MN! Franken wouldn’t yield the floor to Thune,which in effect says he was afraid to confront Thune. Franken is an idiot.
Franken was asking him to answer a question with the yielded time and Thune would not, so he lost his time. Boo-Hoo.
As for ‘Stealing’ an election, you must have Franken confused with Bush, Franken won fair and square.
As for being an ‘Idiot’ I would put Franken’s Havard education up against Thune’s higher ed any day of the week.
I wouldn’t yield at a four way intersection for Thune, so I don’t blame Franken a bit here.
Not sure how Franken “stole” that election though. I’d say it is time to build a bridge and get the hell over it. He was elected, and unless you are from Minnesota you probably didn’t have jack to do with it either way.
At least Franken appears to be well versed on the issues he is debating. You have to give him that much even if you disagree with his viewpoint.
He is very smart.
The ref didn’t wanna give a time out when Thune tried to call time out on Franken during the colloquy. Wtf?!
Senator Thune, it’s too bad we can’t install some backboards in the chamber and settle every issue playing ball! We have to debate using words! It’s not fair! Bwaaah!
More of this needs to be done: simply hold up the truth in the face of lies.
Looks like John was correct:
“It is true that the CBO officially scored the bill as costing $848 billion. But much of the spending is back-loaded. The bill doesn’t start spending until 2014, and only costs $9 billion that year. By 2019, the annual cost hits $196 billion. The minority staff of the Senate Budget Committee reports the cost is closer to $2.5 trillion over 10 years once all budget gimmicks are factored out. If you include costs shifted to individuals, businesses and state governments, the price tag could top $6 trillion.”
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11054
Someone should ask the “brilliant” Franken how these “benefits” kick in with no costs associated with them until 2014? Oh wait, John tried and Franken went to Brown instead.
“On the floor Monday, Franken laid out a series of benefits he said would kick in right away under the bill. When Thune tried to ask a question, Franken yielded his floor time to Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) instead.”
So rather than debate (ie answer Thune’s question) he hides behind Brown whining about how they “already had 30 minutes”. Newsflash: I doubt Thune or any Rep. Senator spent their time calling out a colleauge as a liar. And when called out, Thune responded.
You also must’ve missed the last part of the Politco piece:
“Soon after the exchange, Thune returned to the floor, with some GOP reinforcements. Sen. John McCain called Franken’s claims “misleading,†which he said was the “kindest way I could describe it.â€
Responding to Franken’s arguments, Thune said that his chart was accurate and was backed up by the Congressional Budget Office.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/30589.html
and “booming voice”? Are you fucking kidding me? Franken’s one of the whiniest, pissiest, pettiest smart asses to ever roam the Halls of Congress. Like BHO he’ll be one and done in 2012.
oops, I mean 2014 for Franken.
Try watching the extended version here:
http://tpmtv.talkingpointsmemo.com/?id=4208037
Note how Franken fumbles with his points, constantly looks over to Brown for a lifeline, and throws numbers out of his ass (ie..”he says no benefits for 1800 days” it’s 1479, not 1800) and he also makes the feeble attempt to invoke McCain and his “facts are stubborn things” line, which McCain returns the favor by allowing John to refute Weird Al’s tirade at the 15 minute mark.
Also note how John initially said “most benefits” don’t kick in and how Franken tried to turn that into “no benefits”. John clarifies that 99% of the benefits kick in in 2014 and the true reason why they lined it up this way was simply to make the costs look better than they actually are.
I’m sorry, but if all you Libs are getting a hard on for Franken y’all are some sorry ass mofo’s. John schooled him and didn’t look like a petty, fumbling ass in the process.
I enjoyed watching the extended version on that liberal website you linked to, Sy. I think Senator Thune was awful brave to try & take on all those rookie Democrat Party senators by himself!
Whatever…L3wis and all the other bloogers are creaming their jeans over a “beatdown” that was nothing more than Franken doing what Franken does best: beating himself.
Thune lied with his chart presentation. Franken busted him on it. It’s just that simple. The RNC noise machine just doesn’t stop.. FIFTY YEARS and you slobs are still pandering to big insurance and big pharma. Time to fix health care, even if the Dems have to ram a watered down bill up your butts. That’s what they were elected to do. That’s why so many GOP candidates got it handed to them last year. Don’t like public options? Medicare and the VA have been great sucesses, with excellent care and less than 10% admin. costs. Most HMO’s have 25-35% admin. costs, and HUGE profits while they turn down legit claims, hoping you won’t sue them. ENOUGH! Stop the noise machine and fix this whether or not the insurance companies or their cronies in the GOP like it. The RNC bought the people of SD off with a hundred-dollar-a-vote negative ad campaign.
Take your state back in 2010!
It took a little time after this outburst but eventually total boredom was restored in the Senate.