But the ‘Dukes’ still get a citation for aerial easment.
Interesting city facts(#12 of 74):
Before you can get a building permit, you must give the city an overhead aerial easement for aircraft ingress/egress and except them from damages resulting from aircraft accidents. Unconstitutional in all 50 states, violates landowners ‘bundle of property rights’.
Maybe this ‘Interesting City Facts’ thing will be incorporated into a ‘Declaration of independence’ for Sioux Falls citizens. It can go on StopHomeRuleSiouxFalls.com so that (unlike city codes) it is publically posted for free.
What’s happening here in SF is the same thing that happened in this Georgia town. Looks like our city could take a page from this mayor on more than just red lite cameras.
….At $75 a pop, 6,906 citations were issued that year, mostly for illegal right-on-red turns; 624 citations were issued in February alone.
Then the Georgia Legislature, responding to widespread constituent concerns that red-light cameras were little more than a way to generate revenue for governments, ordered that yellow lights be lengthened by one second at all intersections with traffic cameras. Longer yellow lights would give motorists more time to stop for a red light.
When the law took effect Dec. 31, 2008, citations quickly plummeted. In February 2009, 125 citations were issued from Dalton’s cameras.
“That sort of exposed the myth of why they’re there,” says Mayor David Pennington, an opponent of red-light cameras. “It goes against what I was told to begin with, which is that they are for safety.”
Again…this whole red lite camera scam is not about safety. Never was. Never will be…unless of course this city raises it’s yellow times like they did in Georgia. Our own traffic study conducted in 2002 to bring this scam into fruition bears out the dangers of decreasing yellow times. They lowered the yellow times here in that study to see what the effects were. They showed a much higher rate of red lite running as yellow times were decreased. So the city, in their infinite wisdom, kept those lowered yellow times as the “new and improved” benchmark.
The firm that conducted that study….way back in 2002 said a followup study should be conducted in a few months to measure the results of the city’s tampering with yellow times. Guess what? That follow up traffic study has never been conducted…at least not one where the results are open to public scrutiny. WHY DO YOU SPOSE THAT IS COS?
Poly43, thanks for this background. I’d heard of this story and you’ve filled in the blanks.
When there’s a citizens protest rally, I’m going. Are you?
The Washington Pavilion is often available for lease.
Maybe a citizens protest rally and litigation expenses telethon? Free T-shirts with StopHomeRuleSiouxFalls.com arched across the back.
Citizens (not King Munson) are Sioux Falls. I knew we’d find a good use for the Pavilion.
poly if you have questions about what studies have been performed, you better go ask the city engineer or put a call into the mayor’s office – because whining about it on Scott’s blog isn’t about to change a damn thing.
poly: Again…this whole red lite camera scam is not about safety. Never was. Never will be
I believe I read right here on this very forum (or a link to the Argus story actually) that reported accidents at that intersection were actually down 30% since the installation of the cameras.
Sure seems like it works to me!
Meanwhile back on planet poly, I recall you claiming adjusting yellow light times would lead to more accidents… yet I fail to remember seeing the facts to back that up.
Go figure.
$afety is only a $econdary benefit of the$e light$.
I think we have also figured out the city isn’t actually making any money on them. Perhaps they would have if nobody ever sued, but their minor share of the profits is being eaten up (and then some) to fight the legal battle.
All things considered, I don’t think it is a money maker. If the city was really hell bent on making money, they would have had a lot better luck putting the cameras at 41st and Louise where you can catch all the out-of-tower drivers who are unfamiliar with the cameras. Heck – I’d bet they could catch two or three times as many violations up there, but perhaps I’m wrong…I freely admit I have zero info to back that up other than what I witness with my own eyes.
Bottom line cos. 10th & Minnesota is safer today because the city raised the yellow times by half a second and added the pedestrian countdown timers that aid both pedestrians and drivers. That intersection would be just as safe with or without the revenue generating camera.
This info from that ’02 study.
41st & Luoise.
The total number of red light violations at 41st Street and Louise Avenue in the before period was 100… The yellow clearance period was reduced from 4.0 to 3.5 or 3.6 seconds… As might be expected, the number of violations in the after study increased to 178.
10th and Minnesota
The number of noted violations of red lights at the intersection of 10th Street and Minnesota Avenue in the before study was amazing. Two hundred forty-seven observations were made in a 4½ hour period.
The major change in the signal timing was to increase the yellow clearance time from 3.0 to 3.5 seconds for all phases.
Total number of after red light violations was 57, which is approximately 1/5 the number in the before study.
Yer a smart guy cos…or at least that’s what you’d like us to believe. Red lite running does go up as yellow times are decreased…just like they did here in SF. Step outside your employer provided cubicle for just a second and ask yourself these questions.
The city of Sioux Falls is well aware of the safety improvements made by extending the yellow times at 10th & Minnesota from 3 to 3.5 seconds. So, with SAFETY in mind, why are the yellow times at ALL other 30 mph intersections STILL AT 3 SECONDS? Why did the city lower the yellow times along 41st street knowing violations would go up and the safety factor down? Why has there been no follow up study as recommended by the firm that conducted the SF traffic study in 2002?
Poiy10th & Minnesota is safer today because the city raised the yellow times by half a second and added the pedestrian countdown timers that aid both pedestrians and drivers.
Pedestrian countdown timers would have no impact upon accidents. Say what you will, but everyone I know is very aware the cameras are at that intersection and make a point to stay alert when going through it. Awareness alone will decrease the frequency of accidents, and like it or not – they have gone down – not up as you claimed.
Poly Step outside your employer provided cubicle for just a second and ask yourself these questions.
Listen – if you can’t formulate an arugment without continually resorting to an ad hominem attack then we have nothing to discuss.
However if you really must know – I’m sitting in my office in my home just like I so often do. Not that it is any of your fucking business.
The rest of your post is just cut and paste from the many previous times you have discussed this issue, which tells me you are taking this far too seriously to actually have documents ready so you can paste your drivel here time and time again. I’ve shot holes in your arguments before… don’t care to waste time doing it again.
Poly, good luck finding the city engineer or the mayor. The city engineer lives in arizona on his kickback from the red light camera. The mayor locks himself in his office trying to spot a blue dress for his assistant to sell on e-bay.
You’ve shot holes in nothing cos. All you’ve done since I’ve posted on this forum is carry water for a failed system…
and apologized for predatory credit card companies. But I spose you’d have to, wouldn’t you cos.
As somebody who crosses that intersection 3 or 4 times a day, I can attest that the countdown timers are the primary reason I have either slowed down or not run a yellow at that intersection.
So then where is that study you mentioned which would prove there have been more accidents at that intersection poly?
We both no no such study exists – we both know accidents at that intersection have actually gone down 30% since the cameras went up and there have been zero fatalities as well.
So if you are so sure of yourself, post the facts.
This all reminds me of your diatribe against assault weapons. I think you claimed some mythical studies existed then too… but we both know how that ended.
Game. Set. Owned.
So then where is that study you mentioned which would prove there have been more accidents at that intersection poly?
~cos
More accidents at THAT intersection cos? My issue has ALWAYS been with the safety of our controlled intersections cos….ALL OF THEM. What part of this do you not understand?
The city of Sioux Falls is well aware of the safety improvements made by extending the yellow times at 10th & Minnesota from 3 to 3.5 seconds. So, with SAFETY in mind, why are the yellow times at ALL other 30 mph intersections STILL AT 3 SECONDS? Why did the city lower the yellow times along 41st street knowing violations would go up and the safety factor down? Why has there been no follow up study as recommended by the firm that conducted the SF traffic study in 2002?
I’ve said it enough, here and on the Argus forum. Just WHERE exactly did I say what you are twisting into your red herring game?
Game. Set. Owned.
~cos
In your own f’ing warped mind cos. Now get back to work.
But the ‘Dukes’ still get a citation for aerial easment.
Interesting city facts(#12 of 74):
Before you can get a building permit, you must give the city an overhead aerial easement for aircraft ingress/egress and except them from damages resulting from aircraft accidents. Unconstitutional in all 50 states, violates landowners ‘bundle of property rights’.
Maybe this ‘Interesting City Facts’ thing will be incorporated into a ‘Declaration of independence’ for Sioux Falls citizens. It can go on StopHomeRuleSiouxFalls.com so that (unlike city codes) it is publically posted for free.
What’s happening here in SF is the same thing that happened in this Georgia town. Looks like our city could take a page from this mayor on more than just red lite cameras.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-01-17-red-light-side_N.htm
….At $75 a pop, 6,906 citations were issued that year, mostly for illegal right-on-red turns; 624 citations were issued in February alone.
Then the Georgia Legislature, responding to widespread constituent concerns that red-light cameras were little more than a way to generate revenue for governments, ordered that yellow lights be lengthened by one second at all intersections with traffic cameras. Longer yellow lights would give motorists more time to stop for a red light.
When the law took effect Dec. 31, 2008, citations quickly plummeted. In February 2009, 125 citations were issued from Dalton’s cameras.
“That sort of exposed the myth of why they’re there,” says Mayor David Pennington, an opponent of red-light cameras. “It goes against what I was told to begin with, which is that they are for safety.”
Again…this whole red lite camera scam is not about safety. Never was. Never will be…unless of course this city raises it’s yellow times like they did in Georgia. Our own traffic study conducted in 2002 to bring this scam into fruition bears out the dangers of decreasing yellow times. They lowered the yellow times here in that study to see what the effects were. They showed a much higher rate of red lite running as yellow times were decreased. So the city, in their infinite wisdom, kept those lowered yellow times as the “new and improved” benchmark.
The firm that conducted that study….way back in 2002 said a followup study should be conducted in a few months to measure the results of the city’s tampering with yellow times. Guess what? That follow up traffic study has never been conducted…at least not one where the results are open to public scrutiny. WHY DO YOU SPOSE THAT IS COS?
Poly43, thanks for this background. I’d heard of this story and you’ve filled in the blanks.
When there’s a citizens protest rally, I’m going. Are you?
The Washington Pavilion is often available for lease.
Maybe a citizens protest rally and litigation expenses telethon? Free T-shirts with StopHomeRuleSiouxFalls.com arched across the back.
Citizens (not King Munson) are Sioux Falls. I knew we’d find a good use for the Pavilion.
poly if you have questions about what studies have been performed, you better go ask the city engineer or put a call into the mayor’s office – because whining about it on Scott’s blog isn’t about to change a damn thing.
poly: Again…this whole red lite camera scam is not about safety. Never was. Never will be
I believe I read right here on this very forum (or a link to the Argus story actually) that reported accidents at that intersection were actually down 30% since the installation of the cameras.
Sure seems like it works to me!
Meanwhile back on planet poly, I recall you claiming adjusting yellow light times would lead to more accidents… yet I fail to remember seeing the facts to back that up.
Go figure.
$afety is only a $econdary benefit of the$e light$.
I think we have also figured out the city isn’t actually making any money on them. Perhaps they would have if nobody ever sued, but their minor share of the profits is being eaten up (and then some) to fight the legal battle.
All things considered, I don’t think it is a money maker. If the city was really hell bent on making money, they would have had a lot better luck putting the cameras at 41st and Louise where you can catch all the out-of-tower drivers who are unfamiliar with the cameras. Heck – I’d bet they could catch two or three times as many violations up there, but perhaps I’m wrong…I freely admit I have zero info to back that up other than what I witness with my own eyes.
Bottom line cos. 10th & Minnesota is safer today because the city raised the yellow times by half a second and added the pedestrian countdown timers that aid both pedestrians and drivers. That intersection would be just as safe with or without the revenue generating camera.
This info from that ’02 study.
41st & Luoise.
The total number of red light violations at 41st Street and Louise Avenue in the before period was 100… The yellow clearance period was reduced from 4.0 to 3.5 or 3.6 seconds… As might be expected, the number of violations in the after study increased to 178.
10th and Minnesota
The number of noted violations of red lights at the intersection of 10th Street and Minnesota Avenue in the before study was amazing. Two hundred forty-seven observations were made in a 4½ hour period.
The major change in the signal timing was to increase the yellow clearance time from 3.0 to 3.5 seconds for all phases.
Total number of after red light violations was 57, which is approximately 1/5 the number in the before study.
Yer a smart guy cos…or at least that’s what you’d like us to believe. Red lite running does go up as yellow times are decreased…just like they did here in SF. Step outside your employer provided cubicle for just a second and ask yourself these questions.
The city of Sioux Falls is well aware of the safety improvements made by extending the yellow times at 10th & Minnesota from 3 to 3.5 seconds. So, with SAFETY in mind, why are the yellow times at ALL other 30 mph intersections STILL AT 3 SECONDS? Why did the city lower the yellow times along 41st street knowing violations would go up and the safety factor down? Why has there been no follow up study as recommended by the firm that conducted the SF traffic study in 2002?
Poiy10th & Minnesota is safer today because the city raised the yellow times by half a second and added the pedestrian countdown timers that aid both pedestrians and drivers.
Pedestrian countdown timers would have no impact upon accidents. Say what you will, but everyone I know is very aware the cameras are at that intersection and make a point to stay alert when going through it. Awareness alone will decrease the frequency of accidents, and like it or not – they have gone down – not up as you claimed.
Poly Step outside your employer provided cubicle for just a second and ask yourself these questions.
Listen – if you can’t formulate an arugment without continually resorting to an ad hominem attack then we have nothing to discuss.
However if you really must know – I’m sitting in my office in my home just like I so often do. Not that it is any of your fucking business.
The rest of your post is just cut and paste from the many previous times you have discussed this issue, which tells me you are taking this far too seriously to actually have documents ready so you can paste your drivel here time and time again. I’ve shot holes in your arguments before… don’t care to waste time doing it again.
Poly, good luck finding the city engineer or the mayor. The city engineer lives in arizona on his kickback from the red light camera. The mayor locks himself in his office trying to spot a blue dress for his assistant to sell on e-bay.
You’ve shot holes in nothing cos. All you’ve done since I’ve posted on this forum is carry water for a failed system…
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-01-17-red-light_N.htm
and apologized for predatory credit card companies. But I spose you’d have to, wouldn’t you cos.
As somebody who crosses that intersection 3 or 4 times a day, I can attest that the countdown timers are the primary reason I have either slowed down or not run a yellow at that intersection.
So then where is that study you mentioned which would prove there have been more accidents at that intersection poly?
We both no no such study exists – we both know accidents at that intersection have actually gone down 30% since the cameras went up and there have been zero fatalities as well.
So if you are so sure of yourself, post the facts.
This all reminds me of your diatribe against assault weapons. I think you claimed some mythical studies existed then too… but we both know how that ended.
Game. Set. Owned.
So then where is that study you mentioned which would prove there have been more accidents at that intersection poly?
~cos
More accidents at THAT intersection cos? My issue has ALWAYS been with the safety of our controlled intersections cos….ALL OF THEM. What part of this do you not understand?
The city of Sioux Falls is well aware of the safety improvements made by extending the yellow times at 10th & Minnesota from 3 to 3.5 seconds. So, with SAFETY in mind, why are the yellow times at ALL other 30 mph intersections STILL AT 3 SECONDS? Why did the city lower the yellow times along 41st street knowing violations would go up and the safety factor down? Why has there been no follow up study as recommended by the firm that conducted the SF traffic study in 2002?
I’ve said it enough, here and on the Argus forum. Just WHERE exactly did I say what you are twisting into your red herring game?
Game. Set. Owned.
~cos
In your own f’ing warped mind cos. Now get back to work.
So no study to back it up then?
Thanks for clearing that up!
Inspired by who???
I meant who(m)?
Didn’t I?