Just imagine your property taxes doubling in that amount of time? As you can see from this chart that will be presented today in the SF City council informational meeting;
If you look at a bill in 2007 of a family of 5 it was about $31 a month it is about $61 a month now. That is about a $360 a year hike in a 5 year period. While there may be many justifications for this like infrastructure upgrades and Lewis in Clark, I say poppycock. Lewis and Clark is mearly a ‘backup’ in case we run out of water down the road. And as for infrastructure upgrades, those should have been done yearly with small percentage increases. This is highway robbery and the increases need to end or at least be reasonable. As you can see the ridiculous increases continue into 2013.
Instead of complaining about the rates as they are now (which is still competitive with other cities around us and much lower than most smaller towns around us), how about you complain about the lack of foresight that kept rates artificially low while our infrastructure started to crumble and failed to keep up with demand.
If anything people should be happy they were effectively being underbilled for so many years, but don’t ever skip an opportunity to complain about a percieved injustice.
By the way… Lewis & Clark is only meant to serve as a backup short term… eventually if growth continues, we will require that as one of our primary sources of water. It may not be required every year, but during the dry years it will be necessary. Some argue that a city should never grow beyond its natural ability to support itself, but I’m not sure there is any feasible way around this one. We could drain the Big Sioux for our own needs obviously, but that isn’t very fair to those down river.
I guess instead of increasing rates 100% in a 5 year period I would have did a 1% + inflation each year until we caught up, even if it took 20 years, oh well. Staggers told me they CAN do infrastructure upgrades thru the CIP they just refuse to because it gives them an excuse to raise our rates. The rates did not have to be raised that much all at once.
With 1% plus inflation (lets just say an average of 4% a year) it would take you around 18 years to get to the same point – but the issue with that is you have now missed out on 18 years of rate increases which means you are so far below actual costs that you would be funding the facilities and infrastructure from other sources (read: tax and/or fee increases elsewhere).
Effectively to keep up you need rates to keep pace with inflation, so in essense you are only gaining 1% a year in your scenario, which means to get to the level we are at now as opposed to the underfunded level we were at five years ago, you would have to use that rate adjustment schedule for the next 77 years or so – but since it takes you 77 years to get there, you lag behind necessary costs for three quarters of a century.
In short – that idea is 100% unsustainable at any level and you could never catch up with only a 1% adjustment.
You really only have three options here. Number one, adjust rates yearly based upon inflation AFTER they are at the proper level (which is a point where the rates can sustain the infrastructure and operating costs).
Number two, adjust rates on a reactive basis which means large rate increases every few years to make up for the lack of routine rate increases. This also means additional rate increases when new infrastructure is needed or when expansion is required since budgets are typically focused upon past costs rather than future expenses. (this is essentially the plan we seem to be using now).
Number three, magically figure out a way to lock in costs. This means no more expansion, no replacement or upgrading to facilities. Convince employees who work for the public works department that they need to be willing to keep the same salaries and work out an arrangement with the power company to keep rates at the same level. Also convince the companies that provide the treatment chemicals that they can’t raise their rates…ever. To top that off, when you get the point you are at capacity with the existing facilities, ban any new development or expansion in the city and ensure no new building permits are issued for any project which resides within the service area of the existing water treatment plant. You may also have to enact a 1:1 birth:death ratio in city limits, so nobody is allowed to bring a child into the city or move into the city unless someone dies first to ensure water usage remains stable.
So which option makes the most sense?
Wow. That is the craziest Michele Bachman like rant I have ever heard from you.
We pay taxes. That money goes into a couple of funds. One of them is the CIP. A fund specifically set aside to deal with upgrades. What part of that do you not understand? The CIP is where the upgrades should come from.
Like I said before, water rates should adjusted to water usage (delivery, maintenance, labor etc.) If a certain administration chooses to ignore infrastructure upgrades, oh well, the citizens should not be punished for this. Use the CIP for it’s intention and stop bilking citizens in their water bills.
Stehly said it best in her presentation to the city council Monday night, it is a MONOPOLY, the city has NO competition in the water business, we have NO choice but to buy from them. And while they fuck us over cities they sell to get a deal. What’s up with that?
OK genius, tell us how it could not be a monopoly? What’s done is done, and now due to others ineptitude we have to pay. We can either sit and cry or suck it up and enjoy what we get. The rate increase sucks, I get it but you seriously need to just buck up.
l3wis. $61 a month for a family of five? Let’s see. That’s about 10 CCF a month. Hmmmm. A while back I was called a dipshit for making the outrageous claim 10 CCF is typical family use.
Maybe this family needs to spend more quality time together. Maybe draw about 10 gallons of water into their tub every Saturday nite and bathe together. That way they can get to that mythical 3 CCF per month usage that the Cosmic family uses.
Theresa did a good job with her presentation. Fact is, Joe SixPack and his family cannot continue to fund city projects. He can only be streched so thin.
Poly – Jim and Costner have a listening problem. They continue to ignore the fact that upgrades can be done thru our CIP and there is no need to raise the rates so drastically. But I guess we should just ‘buck up’ and let our city government fuck us over and never question them.
They continue to ignore the fact that upgrades can be done thru our CIP and there is no need to raise the rates so drastically.
What? And here all this time I thought the CIP was money set aside for downpayments on pet projects.
And according to KELO last night the mayor wants to use the CIP for the EC. In other words our water rates now will be subsidizing that place also. Nice.
Not to forget todays Argus story about even more money needed for bullshit studies.
Some audience members asked whether there would be more money requested by the administration in future budgets.
Councilor Michelle Erpenbach said there is an upcoming request by the administration for $65,000 that would be used toward studying naming rights, not only for a new events center but for all city buildings.
Just what the hell were the first and second penny taxes designed for in the first place? This is all just another piece of the shell game to indirectly have Joe SixPack pay for a ‘Event’ center.
lewis: “We pay taxes. That money goes into a couple of funds. One of them is the CIP. A fund specifically set aside to deal with upgrades. What part of that do you not understand? The CIP is where the upgrades should come from.”
So instead of the people who use the water actually paying for it, you want to divert money from other taxes to help pay for infrastructure improvements? I don’t really see that being any better – and frankly either way the city will get their money… they either raise taxes or fees, or they raise rates. If you would rather see property taxes go up to compensate or have special assessments added then so be it… but I don’t see how that solves anything.
Now I’ll admit I don’t know how the city has been financing all of their expansion projects, so do we even know if portions of them aren’t coming from the CIP? Are we just assuming the rates are meant to play catchup rather than actually paying for the operational and maintenance costs?
Why is it that our water rates are right in line with other cities (including Poly’s favorite example of Sioux City) and you just gloss over that fact? We are actually well below most smaller cities in our area yet no mention of that either. Instead it is just a lot more fun to bitch about an increase rather than being happy you were effectively underbilled the last decade.
lewis: “Like I said before, water rates should adjusted to water usage (delivery, maintenance, labor etc.) If a certain administration chooses to ignore infrastructure upgrades, oh well, the citizens should not be punished for this. Use the CIP for it’s intention and stop bilking citizens in their water bills.”
Bilking? If our water rates were 30% or 50% higher than other cities that might be a fair term… but the reality is we are right in line with other cities. How exactly is that bilking?
lewis: Stehly said it best in her presentation to the city council Monday night, it is a MONOPOLY, the city has NO competition in the water business, we have NO choice but to buy from them. And while they fuck us over cities they sell to get a deal. What’s up with that?
Stehly is an idiot. Name one single city in the entire US which has true competition for water services. I’ll wait.
…
Oh thats right… none of them do because it is a utility. In fact, most cities have municiple water sources and your only alternative is either a well (if you are in an area that allows it) or in some cases water is provided by a privately managed contractor… which charges way more than the city would.
If you want to outsource our water to a private company just say so, but be prepared to see your rates jump because private companies need to make a profit. The city isn’t making profit from water rates, they are merely trying to stay ahead of costs. So either provide some hard data showing that they are diverting water and sewer funds to other projects, or stop with the nonsense.
By the way I’m not sure I understand how you think we are giving those other cities a deal. Have you seen the rates charged in Harrisburg? I don’t think Sioux Falls is doing them any favors as they pay over twice what we do.
Just look at the numbers for yourself: http://www.siouxfalls.org/~/media/documents/publicworks/2011/utility_newsletter/SF_2011_utilities_newsletter.ashx
Poly: “Let’s see. That’s about 10 CCF a month. Hmmmm. A while back I was called a dipshit for making the outrageous claim 10 CCF is typical family use.”
First of all were you actually called a dipshit, or are you embellishing as you typically do?
Second, do you care to tell me what your water usage and bill was last month? I just got mine last week and it was $19.89… and guess what – my usage this past cycle was 2CCF intead of 3. I’m guessing I was just under 3 though so next month will be 3 or possibly even 4… but a far cry from 10.
I don’t think I’m a huge conservationist… I take longer than average showers and can’t say as I always wait for the dishwasher to be full before I run it. I will admit we aren’t watering a lawn or watering trees at this point, and we do have a high efficiency washing machine and 1.6gpf toilets – but seriously I have no idea how a family of 3 or 4 could use 10CCF in a month. Maybe it is possible…. I just don’t know how.
Maybe l3wis will chime in and offer to tell us what his usage was the last few months. Or someone else… because I have a hard time believing that my usage is irregular – but maybe it is without me even trying.
So if a family is using 10CCF an they aren’t watering their lawn yet… I’d have to say they are being rather wasteful or they have a very large (above average size) family. That is their choice of course, but I’m not going to feel bad if they spend a whopping $60 on water and sewer because that is less than most people spend on a single cell phone or cable TV bill.
Sorry guys, but when you are objective about this and actually compare our rates against our peers we just aren’t out of line as you suggest. This is just another example of how you are finding an excuse to complain about city government without any legitimate reason to do so. You just sound bitter and bitchy for no valid reason I’m afraid… but what else is new.
Costner – w/o reading your post (even though I eventually will) tells me that you have too much free time on your hands. Do you have the day off?
First of all were you actually called a dipshit…
~cos
Yes
Stehly is an idiot.
~cos
That’s all I need to know about you costner. You could not be more wrong.
Do you have the day off?
~DL
Prolly not. Hint. Look at the IP address he’s posting from.
This is what I will say about Theresa, and I am not saying this as a friend, but as someone who has gotten to know her very well, because Theresa and Kermit have been rock solid in these fights, and trust me, we stay connected, sometimes talking twice a day. I can’t speak for myself, but I can tell you that they are very passionate about the well being of our city and it’s citizens.
Do they get it wrong sometimes? Yes. And they will be the first to admit it (Stehly has Catholic guilt and all). But Theresa is right about this issue. A 100% increase in 5 years is unacceptable. Hell, gas prices haven’t even gone up that much. Water! A natural resource that comes out of the ground in every single inch of this planet, not just terrorist nations like Saudi Arabia! Think about that!
The city isn’t making profit from water rates, they are merely trying to stay ahead of costs.
The city treats on average 20.5 million gallons of water a day, or 27,404 CCF in one day. 833,538 CCF in one month. Yer a self proclaimed water rates expert cos. Where is this money being spent?
Yes they have gone up a lot, but when they are extremely low and the prices are getting inline with what is needed where is the problem? The price we pay for water is small, you should look into what all is required to bring it in, clean it and distribute it seamlessly while maintaining the distribution network. If you want an idea of private prices go to the store and see what a gallon of water costs, then figure what you use, then multiply.
So now you are comparing this to bottled water? Boy, you must be running out of good arguments.
poly:That’s all I need to know about you costner. You could not be more wrong.
So basically that is your way of saying that nobody actually called you a dipshit, you are essentially lying once again, you really have no valid retort, and after you looked at your water bill and figured out that 10CCF is a hellofvalot of water you weren’t man enough to admit it?
Why didn’t you just say so?
lewis: Do you have the day off?
poly:Prolly not. Hint. Look at the IP address he’s posting from.
Let’s just go ahead and put this out there since you both seem so interested, and since poly seems to think this is a valid retort anytime he can’t counter an argument with facts as he tries to change the subject.
No I don’t have the day off – yes I posted that comment from work. That being said, I arrived at work at about 7:00am this morning, and I just walked into my house about 10 minutes ago where I proceeded to dial back into work to check the progress of an update I’m running.
I do actually get breaks throughout the day like everyone else. I do even occasionally take a lunch which is often sitting at my desk eating a sandwich with one monitor showing the status of a server or data cube while the other might have a window with the Argus and/or Southdacola open while I catch up on the local happenings.
Sometimes I kick something off and have a few minutes to blow waiting for it to run, so I’ll drop in and read the latest headline… add a comment or two, then drop back out.
Last weekend I was dialed in to work for three hours on Saturday to correct a gigantic cluster so someone else could work for 20 minutes. On Sunday I was in the office for another 2 hours because I had to perform maintenance which had to be done outside of normal business hours. I even dared to listen to some mp3s at the same time as I’m such a horrible employee. When I go on vacation I carry a laptop and cell phone with me. I have been called and/or paged at all hours of the night, weekends, during vacations, and even while I’m in the same building dropping a deuce in stall number two.
A couple of years ago my company was sued by a former employee who claimed she wasn’t paid enough for her ‘extra hours’ because she was salary. Because I had the same title and it turned into a class action case, they asked me how many hours in the previous year I had worked. I explained I had no idea but that I probably averaged at least 4 hours a week in the evenings and/or on the weekend… it actually used to be much more but I have cut down in the past few years thankfully. My boss pulled a report showing my access to the building to determine how many hours I was actually onsite, and it averaged 44 hours a week. Averaged. 44 hours. So if you are strong in math that tells you my average is 48 hours total. A week.
Am I bragging? No. There are coal miners who bust their assess for 14 hour days while I sit in front of a computer in an air conditioned office with a padded chair that has at least six levers on it to ensure I’m as comfortable as possible. There are small business owners that probably work 60 or 80 hours a week just to turn a profit, and there are a lot of salaried employees such as myself who work extra hours all the time with no extra compensation for it.
So with all of that said… am I going to feel guilty when I take five minutes out of my day to post a response to yet another witty topic here on Southdacola or lose sleep over the fact that I added a comment to an Argus story (something I have probably done about 20 times in the past 6 months)? Nope.
However I do get a little tired of defending myself on this same matter time and time again, so I’ll do you a favor and not bother to post in the future. No offense lewis, but lately here is what I have witnessed to be a reasonable facsimile of a typical day on SouthDacola:
l3wis: Mayor subprime is talking out of both sides of his ass again! He said he would only use two sheets of toilet paper to wipe with and now he wants three.
Sy: Build it downtown!
l3wis: The city requires me to maintain their property! Project TRIM blaaaaaahhh!!!!
Poly: There are a bazillion people in Sioux Falls making under $13.00 an hour!
Scott: That is interesting, here is my viewpoint in the calmest and most logical way possible…
Helga: Republicans are morons.
Pathloss: The city government is corrupt. The entire process is unconstitutional.
Poly: This parking study clearly shows there are 234 spots there rather than the 244 being reported.
l3wis: I need to prove I’m a hipster, so check out this random band that most people have never heard of.
Helga: Republicans are still morons.
l3wis: Here is some funny banter about shitty customers I have experienced during my years in the service industry.
Costner: (Some 3000 word essay that nobody will read)
Angry Guy: You’re a moron.
Poly: Yes but (insert random city here) is much better than Sioux Falls in that regard.
Sy: 873 other cities have built new events centers and 862 of them are downtown.
WarrenPhear: I’m too lazy to use my other username, but all unions are good, and Wall Street has a monopoly on greed.
l3wis: Here is a poem from some guy who thinks he is creative. If you disagree you know nothing about art.
Sy: All the development will happen downtown. Oh yea and STFU Costner.
l3wis: Hey here is a complete misunderstanding of basic economic theory that I need to share with you while you conveniently ignore basic laws of supply and demand, consumption, diminished returns, opportunity costs, and sound fiscal policy.
Poly: Well that isn’t what you said back in 2002 when I quoted you as saying “blueâ€.
Costner: Yet another 3000 word rant that few will read.
Poly: Oh so Costner bitches about some guy watering trees but he has time to type a 3000 word rant?
l3wis: The city spends too much on these types of things and all of our councilors are idiots. Except that one guy who aggress with me. Staggers would have been so much better than your man Mike.
Poly: First Premier – Predatory Lending – they are all crooks.
Pathloss: Speaking of crooks, intimidation won’t work and we are looking at a class action settlement from the city for $4 bazillion dollars. Move to Hardford where they understand the Constitution (but I’m staying put and I’ll just by groceries in Brandon).
Poly: I know you’ve heard it before, but back in 1962 I made 16 cents an hour and bought a new home for $34 and because I was union the Earth kept spinning.
l3wis: Hey does anyone want to buy some art?
So with this… my longest post ever I believe – I’ll going to take a break from this little echo chamber. I have to admit I don’t take as much from this site as I did, and some of my favorite posters seem to have disappeared. GoD is nowhere to be seen and I felt he contributed to this site in a large way. Sy probably posts about 10% of what he used to, and although I will admit we butt heads from time to time at least he was entertaining and thought provoking.
A few of the others who used to be regulars don’t seem to show up, and I find myself losing more and more interest as I can almost predict what the responses to any particular subject are going to be even before they are posted. Since it seems to be such a sticking point that I might post from work it just seems easier if I just don’t bother. I’m sure that will make at least a couple of you very happy.
Sorry about the extremely long rant… have a good one.
So you are going to quit because we disagree with how infrastructure upgrades should be paid for? That’s kinda silly.
I only tease you about the work thing because I know it gets Poly riled up. When I used to have a desk job I posted all the time from work, just you did, in between tasks, etc. My coworkers were watching ESPN online, fantasy football, soap operas, you name it, maybe that’s why they went belly up 🙂
BTW, I’m glad you are hardworker, I hope they pay you well, because gawd knows the place you work for has been raping me on interest rates for years, and I would hate to see all that revenue going to the top execs and trickling down to you peons.
Oh and BTW, don’t really care who comments. My readership has been the highest it has even been. I usually gain a 1000 new readers every 3 months. Yesterday’s stats:
47,356 Hits
16,367 Individual readers
So basically that is your way of saying that nobody actually called you a dipshit, you are essentially lying once again
Does this ring a bell cos?
Actually dipshit, I looked at my last water bill. I used 3CCF last month with three people in the house and visitors on two of the four weekends.
Knowin you’re still out there sulking, that was a hell of a long rant just to say you don’t like your job or those who post here. Here’s a tip. Maybe you should retire. At any rate, I think of you every time I drive by one of your dipshit banks where your handlers overwork your tired ass.
Good Luck.
“At any rate, I think of you every time I drive by one of your dipshit banks where your handlers overwork your tired ass.”
‘Yeah, Mr. Ehrisman, we noticed you don’t have a business account, or a savings account, or a let’s bend you over on more fees account.’
This is why everytime I make a deposit I firmly say, ‘Cash Deposit, please count, let me know if it is correct.’ And when they say yes, I speed off.
I don’t know enough about this subject to have an opinion, but the recap of the typical postings of us regulars had me laughing my ass off. Nice work, Costner.
That was pretty funny.
Don’t worry; be happy.
Pretty soon North Dakota may well pollute and continue spills into your subsidized Missouri River water so it looks and tastes like water from Galveston Bay.
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/news/article_94de6bb6-6163-11e0-b512-001cc4c03286.html
What they don’t contaminate maybe the mining and drilling from Wyoming will likely contaminate it via the Belle Fourche and Cheyenne Rivers.
The doubling of your water bills has just begun.
Yum.