Petition Circulators:Â Please turn in all signatures that you have collected so far so that we have an estimate of where we are at!
Notary’s will be present from 5 – 8:30 pm - PLEASE BRING YOUR PHOTO ID!!
All Sioux Falls registered voters are encouraged to stop by to sign the official petition and show their support of smart growth in the city.
When: TODAY (8/20/13) from 5:00 pm – 8:30 pm
Where:Â 7601 S Audie Ave (on the corner of 85th & Audie Avenue)
Do they have anyone at the County Courthouse during the day collecting signatures?
Talk about hubris… they want your signature so bad you need to drive over to their house to give it to them. You’ll even be allowed access to Bonita’s garage – how thoughtful!
Bonita’s Garage Is A Great Place To meet In The Neighborhood.
I think it is very ‘thoughtful’ of her to offer her garage to collect signatures. it will also give SON and opportunity to educate the public on what they are trying to accomplish. Craig, we know you disagree with their position, but many people do agree with them. You call this ‘hubris’ but if you supported them, you would not think that way. I think citizens should be able to vote on these issues, bravo to SON for trying to give citizens the opportunity to do so.
According to to the argus’s end of the loop story, it sounds like this might violate a few city ordinances.
DL: “You call this ‘hubris’ but if you supported them, you would not think that way.”
Incorrect. I think it is very telling of their attitude of the other citizens of the community when they demand people come to them to give their support.
If the organizers of the snowgate petition would have setup in their garages and told people to drive across town to support them, I wouldn’t have signed that petition either. I think that attitude is harmful and yes it stinks of hubris.
Meanwhile most organizers go where the people are. They interact with the common citizen and make it convenient for them. They stand near the County Administration building or they gather at festivals and events held in public parks. They show they are willing to put forth the effort and they show how they are active with community service.
Meanwhile, SON tells us if we want to sign their petition we need to drive to the edge of town and go into someone’s garage almost as if we have to beg to be part of their little club. I find it pathetic – and it just reinforces the idea that they feel they are better than everyone else and should get special treatment.
Will they collect enough signatures? I think so – if only because many of the SON members are well connected and people don’t like to say no to someone’s face. Yet when it comes time to vote we know what the end result will be. People are much more willing to support a big box store like Walmart when they can do so behind a curtain.
DL: “I think citizens should be able to vote on these issues, bravo to SON for trying to give citizens the opportunity to do so.”
I’m torn on this one. We elect leaders to represent us as a whole. I don’t feel the citizens should have to vote on every minor issue because that isn’t the type of government we have established. This is a zoning issue – precisely the type of thing we shouldn’t have to deal with as a common voter.
However I do support the referendum process, and SON has every right to do what they are doing. Citizens still need options when government fails them, so I can get behind the concept. However like others have stated, I think the threshold of signatures is too low and we are starting to feel the effects of that.
@ Scott – Funny… but somehow the city managed to limit the scope of those anti-assembly and anti-loitering laws to only apply downtown. Go figure.
Like the EC, this is too big of a project to be approved by 8 rubber stampers.
Craig, the garage setup up was not for the signers to arrive, sign and leave. The garage was setup to allow those who have been passing the petitions a place and time to turn in petitions.
This is an effort to get as many signatures as possible in a very short time. If the SON people are doing the job right, they are keeping close tabs on the collection effort and keeping the spirits up.
Ummm – rezoning some land is as big a deal as spending $30mm TAXPAYER DOLLARS? Yipes1 – the deep end has gotten very shallow.
Handed in a sheet and a few signatures and signed a petition. Hoping this goes to a vote. If anyone here wants to sign and hasn’t yet … let me know. I do know they will be at the Farmer’s Market to get signatures.
“Like the EC, this is too big of a project to be approved by 8 rubber stampers.”
Are you really comparing a 40-acre rezone to a nine-figure bond issue? Did you feel that way about last year’s proposal? Based on your previous writings it would seem not. Then you argued that the council members who voted against the rezone were screwing Walmart over.
testor: “Craig, the garage setup up was not for the signers to arrive, sign and leave. The garage was setup to allow those who have been passing the petitions a place and time to turn in petitions.”
Actually it was both. Even SON’s own website was asking people to stop by to sign the petition. Of course asking the citizens to come to them tells me they really don’t have any concerns about traffic on Audie Ave after all!
@hornguy – It seems to me that our gracious host bases his opinions upon the opposite of whatever the Mayor or City Council supports. We need only look at the vote for the Walmart at 69th and Cliff to see evidence of that.
Case in point: http://www.southdacola.com/blog/2012/05/city-council-rejects-walmart-7-1/
The gravy is reading some of DL’s comments to that post. Here is my personal favorite:
Detroit Lewis: “I find it incredibly ignorant for people to build their homes next to an empty lot within the city limits and be P’off that Walmart wants to build next to them. Did you think a wildlife reserve was going in there?”
Oh the irony.
While we are on the subject of backpeddling – here is what Greg Jamison said about a Walmart on 69th and Cliff:
“Whether it was Walmart or Lewis or Hy-Vee, that discussion would have occurred later, but the issue last night was regarding zoning and allowing for commercial use on that corner,†said Jamison “And I think that’s completely appropriate, it’s perfect.â€
I like Jamison… I really do, but I honestly think his vote against Walmart this time around will be a major determining factor on why he doesn’t make it to the Mayor’s office. People have nothing against strong opinions, but when politicians change their opinions based upon the prevailing winds people notice. He didn’t need to be the anti-MMM vote on this issue to set himself apart, but now it is too late. His own words will be used against him, and he will be seen as flip-flopping in order to win votes.
Totally different scenario, and you know it. While I detest WM, the ‘other’ location made more sense.
1) The other location was already zoned and within city limits. No annexation or rezoning needed.
2) The other location was a WM ‘Market’ that is just a little bit bigger then a Walgreens. Not a 185,000 square foot super store, 3 times the size of a Hyvee.
Hey, but keep trying. I take things case by case. This isn’t apples to apples, and you know it.
“Actually it was both. Even SON’s own website was asking people to stop by to sign the petition. Of course asking the citizens to come to them tells me they really don’t have any concerns about traffic on Audie Ave after all!”
Kind of a stretch imagining that that much traffic would be generated, isn’t it? Garage sales are better advertised and while creating some temporary traffic, aren’t objectionable in any neighborhood.
Unlike the Walmart, a simple garage open for any carrying petitions and being able to sign a petition (carriers can’t sign their own, y’know) isn’t a big deal. It isn’t daily or 24 hours 7 days a week.
DL: Totally different scenario, and you know it. While I detest WM, the ‘other’ location made more sense.
Are you kidding me! The other location was smaller – the loading docks would have faced people’s homes without so much as a single street between them. It was actually CLOSER to single family homes with ZERO buffer unlike the 85th and Minnesota location, and it was directly across from a school which would put hundreds of children in front of the store (and associated traffic) on a daily basis.
The other location would have been suitable I’ll grant you that, but it surely is not better or more appropriate than 85th and Minn. So no DL, it would not have ‘made more sense’.
D: “1) The other location was already zoned and within city limits. No annexation or rezoning needed.”
Well first of all a portion of the property was NOT zoned commercial. That was the issue that the city council originally had to vote upon. Hell DL – that was the point of your original post that I cited above because Jamison was the ONLY city councilor to vote FOR zoning changes!
So yes – it did require rezoning, and without that rezoning Walmart couldn’t locate there.
The annexation argument is equally as weak and you know it. Something will go on that property eventually which means it will need to be annexed at one point or another. That isn’t an issue with Walmart, that is just a reality. Even if they build single family homes there it would still need annexation – so that is a moot point. As you said the last time when we were talking about 69th and Cliff… “Did you think a wildlife reserve was going in there?”
DL: “2) The other location was a WM ‘Market’ that is just a little bit bigger then a Walgreens. Not a 185,000 square foot super store, 3 times the size of a Hyvee.”
Beep beep back the truck up. Where did you pull this little idea from exactly? Because I have to tell you – it is absolute myth.
First of all, the Hy-Vee store that was going to be at 69th and Cliff combined with their other commercial structures (gas station etc.) was going to be 160,000 sq ft… and not a single complaint from neighbors. The Walmart was actually going to be slightly bigger than the actual Hy-Vee but less commercial space overall.
So where you get the idea that it would be “a little bigger than a Walgreens” is beyond me. Christ on a tricycle – the average Walgreens store is 14,500 sq feet – so are you just making this up as you go? The electronics department of a Walmart is bigger than that!
Also, where you get the idea that it would be three times the size of a Hy-Vee is also a mystery, and the fact you brought up a Walmart “Market” is just odd.
Walmart did admit they would have to downsize their building to fit on that property which mean sacrificing some things like a garden center – but it was never going to be a small “Market” store.
If you doubt any of the above, I’d suggest reviewing history: http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/walmart-gets-councils-first-approval/?id=130479
I’d link you directly to Walgreens own website where they tell you how big their stores are, but your blog likes to moderate comments with too many URLs, so you will have to validate yourself.
DL: “Hey, but keep trying. I take things case by case. This isn’t apples to apples, and you know it.”
Sorry DL, when I review the facts there is no way to justify your current position aside from simply changing your mind and doing a complete 180 on the issue. The same can be said for Jamison, because last time he was quoted as saying the following:
Greg Jamison: “”Whether it was Walmart or Lewis or Hy-Vee, that discussion would have occurred later, but the issue last night was regarding zoning and allowing for commercial use on that corner,†said Jamison “And I think that’s completely appropriate, it’s perfect.â€
So now, at a different intersection of two major streets, suddenly Greg decides a vote about zoning is really not a vote about zoning but rather about Walmart. Suddenly allowing commercial use on that corner is different than allowing commercial use on a different corner that just so happens to be on the edge of town and the intersection of two major roadways.
I mean come on DL – read your very own quotes from the last time and tell me you haven’t flip-flopped on the issue! You are letting your anti-mainstream and anti-everything viewpoints cloud your own judgment. I can understand Jamison voting the other way because he is running for mayor (although as I’ve said before this will hurt him significantly), but you flipping your mind on the matter seems to be nothing other than you allowing your severe hatred of Walmart to come to the surface.
There are some things that have remained accurate though. For example, at 69th and Cliff you said: “Could Walmart have offered a better plan? Of course they could have, but this seemed to be an ANTI-WALMART campaign from the beginning.”
Well said DL…. well said.
Fact is, we both dislike Walmart. I’d rather we never got another Walmart at all – ever. I’d much rather see a Lewis on that corner or a strip mall. I’d even settle for another Target or a ShopKo. However I’m not allowing my dislike for Walmart to determine my opinion on commercial development, and if you were honest with yourself, you would have no other choice than to feel the same way.
As SON reminds us time and time again – this isn’t about Walmart, it is about zoning. Now if you honestly don’t feel that a major intersection like Minnesota Ave and 85th street is a proper place for commercial development then you will need to explain what else you feel should go there, because for the life of me I cannot see how anyone would ever think it wasn’t ideal for commercial.
Do people really think we can afford to put apartments and twinhomes along major intersections? If so, where do they propose we put the commercial development that a growing city needs?
Face the facts DL – you cannot balance your prior views with your new views, and you need to be honest with yourself on why that is the case. Remove the anti-Walmart bias, and the warm and fuzzy feeling you get when a member of SON reaches out to you can rubs your ego – and then tell me you still don’t think 85th and Minnesota is ideal for commercial development.
@Jackilope – it was sarcasm dude.
Craig, boy you got me. And BTW, what do you do in your free time?
Write.
Craig, facts don’t matter when it comes to this one-man campaign to grind the world’s sharpest axe against those in power. Note that he won’t address your argument, but immediately tries to dismiss it through implied ad hominem.
DL, I don’t believe anyone ever uses your occupation or who you are or how you spend your free time to try and dismiss your arguments. I certainly wouldn’t. Why do you insist on treating your readers so badly sometimes?
HG, I actually think it was kinda funny that Craig spent (wasted) so much time digging up old quotes and posts from me to ‘get me’. It amazes how much time people will waste on attacking me (a private citizen, with an opinion, who runs a blog as a hobby) but give politicians, the ones I attack, a free pass. Or even more so, the developers in this town who have those politicians by the balls. Keep wasting time attacking the messenger, don’t give a fuck, or you can actually start watching and listening, and you will see the things I see. Either way, makes no difference to me. Ignorance is a choice.
Yeah DL, you’re enlightened, everyone else is ignorant, blah blah blah. You’re routinely guilty of all the same sins as those you complain about – arrogance, demagoguery, axe-grinding, vendetta-holding – you just don’t have the balls to run for public office so you sit on the sidelines and bitch.
Doesn’t that ever get old? I mean, you’re obviously a smart guy. Surely there are more constructive ways for you to address these issues that you see, right?
First of all DL, if you know how to use a search engine and the little hotlinks you put on the right side of this page it takes all about three minutes to find that information. Second of all I surely hope you don’t take that as an attack, because I’m merely using your own words to make a point. An attack would be making things up or calling you names.… not something I’ve done.
Thirdly, what makes you think everyone gives politicians a free pass? I can’t speak for anyone other than myself, but I am more than willing to call out my elected leaders when I feel they have crossed the line. I may not always bitch about them on this blog because frankly they aren’t about to read it and I don’t feel adding another voice to the echo chamber is going to be a very productive endeavor. However I have reached out to them directly on more than one occasion, and I’m not afraid to do it again.
The fact is DL, I agree with you probably more often than I disagree with you. However when it comes to certain issues namely your comments about developers and your anti-City Hall attitude, I just can’t help but shake my head every now and then. It is your right to have any opinion you wish, but just because not everybody agrees with you 100 percent of the time shouldn’t make you automatically refer to them as ignorant. I should also point out that a lot of us know many things that we don’t always share, so as well-informed as you might think you are there’s always two sides to the story.
Hornguy has a valid point, you have a very sharp axe and you’re not afraid to wield it. That’s fine – it keeps things interesting and at the very least entertaining, but just keep in mind not everyone is nearly as cynical as you so often seem to be (or want to be).
I’m a cynic, I will admit to that. No apologies.
It’s ok Scott… you just need a hug. Put it on the agenda for the next ‘DaColafest – I’m sure testor will be the first in line!
I kid… I kid.
I’m actually not that angry, for the most part the city leaves me alone, of course this blog might have something to do with it 🙂
oh, I have never known testor to be much of a hugger.